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Thread: Chinese plan for failure?

  1. #11
    Toolmaker51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz View Post
    Label it "JOBBER'S DRILL SET INCLUDING DUPLICATES OF OFTEN USED SIZES" and I'll go away happy. Calling it simply a "set" when the average person's perception of a set does not include duplicates is deceptive advertising, or, as I like to term it, a damn lie.
    And that there, my friends is the keystone. Advertising types have little association with products; while extolling suspicious qualities and benefits. That their expertise is limited never seems to create an issue. Caveat Emptor. It would be an interesting day in court, a legitimate drill index as exhibit A vs their interpretation.
    Per the staggered presentation we are accustomed to; part of that is human engineering, to select one from three adjacent, different diameter bits. That duplicate sizes are staggered is suspicious. Their claim might stem in costs, changing the mold inserts of label size is minimal, the core for what drill should be there vice the duplicate would take a bit more work. Plastic indexes actually grip to some degree compared to steel.
    Last edited by Toolmaker51; 12-19-2016 at 06:15 PM. Reason: typo
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  3. #12
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    Well, I'm going to have to admit I would probably buy the set as the duplicates are ones I tend to use a lot. I have to agree on advertising it differently though.

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    So many of the problems seen in Chinese tools revolve around fitness for purpose and deception. We buy a cheaper tool expecting it to perform a function.So often the tools fails to perform because elements of manufacture has been skipped or downgraded to keep it under a price point.

    Its the branded tools that annoy me, buying a vice grip or some other brand well respected in the past, to find it no better in manufacture quality but very different in price to exact copies that come out the same factory door in a different package.

    I recommend to you the book Poorly Made in China BY Paul Midler- its an eye opener.

    You will look at their products with new eyes.

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    Thanks Ozwelder for the tip. I just went and got the audio version. I listen to books while doing simple tasks in the shop and it keeps my mind busy. It was eye opening just to read the reviews on Amazon. The first ones were all people who have been in China trying to do business and all comment how everything he said was true. It sounds like I'm going to be doing the same thing as I bought a U2 universal cutter sharpener off eBay where the exporter was directly Chinese. It took me 4mo. To get things squared away as they kept getting things messed up, all with that they were sorry. It was more like a waiting game I think than customer service. I like books that give me deep insight into things I don't know about like the last one was https://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Han...r%27s+handbook

    It was another that really opened my eyes to the hidden workings of business and governments that had never made sense to me.
    Cheers.

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    It may very well be deceptive advertising however I see the point even if probably a dull one. 3/16 would be the size of pop rivets the same with 1/8 can't say about some of the other duplicates but if the ad read 21 pieces that does not necessarily mean 21 sizes
    I bought several 500 piece set of craftsman tool sets to give as a Christmas presents for my employees one year each set contained about 25 pieces of what I called filling fodder and each feeler gauge every Allen wrench and the plastic pouches counted as a separate piece they even counted the casters nuts and bolts as part of the 500 set. Even though I got them at a huge bulk discount I felt ripped off but the guys cherished them
    Never try to tell me it can't be done
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwelder View Post
    So many of the problems seen in Chinese tools revolve around fitness for purpose and deception. We buy a cheaper tool expecting it to perform a function.So often the tools fails to perform because elements of manufacture has been skipped or downgraded to keep it under a price point.

    Its the branded tools that annoy me, buying a vice grip or some other brand well respected in the past, to find it no better in manufacture quality but very different in price to exact copies that come out the same factory door in a different package.

    I recommend to you the book Poorly Made in China BY Paul Midler- its an eye opener.

    You will look at their products with new eyes.
    That book is awesome! I first read it about 5 years ago, when I first moved to China. We lived in China for over 5.5 years, and I experienced many of those things first hand.

    That said, I think it's really the marketing/advertising folks to blame here on the drill bits. I'd likely buy that set because it has duplicates. Those are all drill bits that I use a lot, and break the most of.
    My wife is in marketing, and I'm an engineer..... we've had some interesting discussions on stuff like this. If it will sell more of something, then you know for damn sure that the marketing/advertising folks will do it!

    I'm a fan of Dewalt tools, within reason, and for the most part, I've been really satisfied with what I've had. And I've also bought some cheap tools that are direct comparisons to the Dewalt ones, and there is a difference!
    Dewalt does make quite a range of levels within a product line. Compare all of the drill/driver options... they've got the low end version all the way up to the heavy duty XRP version. Batteries are different, gear boxes are different, and power is different. I have several versions, all of which have their place of intended work. Other brands do the same thing... so it makes buying a new drill challenging.

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  12. #17
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    I think personally "truth in advertising" has been completely been replaced with caveat emptor, EVERYWHERE. And there's nobody watching the hen house like when I was younger. Free market ideology just means whatever you can get away with or in so many cases the lowest fine when you get caught. And why not when you look around and the only truly honest folks are seen as schmucks, not somehow virtuous.

    I am one of those schmucks and always will be. I have no delusions in my dealings that what I make is somehow miraculous or genius. I came from dirt farmers, cash in, cash out and the better mousetrap with even better customer service. Your word is your your bond and all that archaic stuff. So it's alien to me like I think a lot of working folks, that you would have to rely on semantic tricks and hiding the truth to make a buck. But you really have to look close everywhere you go as there's no truth, just advertising.

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  14. #18
    PJs
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    I think personally "truth in advertising" has been completely been replaced with caveat emptor, EVERYWHERE. ....

    So it's alien to me like I think a lot of working folks, that you would have to rely on semantic tricks and hiding the truth to make a buck. But you really have to look close everywhere you go as there's no truth, just advertising.
    Marv, you've touched on something here that has brought a few out of the wood work for good reason. I feel a bit obliged to jump back in here after C-Bag on his thoughts, on something I mentioned in another post back when.

    I purchased a set of angle blocks last year on Amazon for $30, KNOWING they wouldn't be great but suit my primitive needs and shop. However when I purchased them I saw they had a spec of "±20 arc seconds"...Oh My, Wow. If they were 5 times that I would have been happy. These things are about 3"-4" on the long sides and when I got them I set them up on my 18"x24"x3" granite against a known good (~1-1.5 tenths) 123 block and found right away I could stick a 6 thou feeler gauge in between at the top of the 30-60-90 and the 123 block. Rough numbers that equated to ~419 seconds. Tried to contact them no response. Amazon sent me a review notice so I did. They responded to and sent me another pair...same thing...a bit better. It's interesting that both 45-45-90's from both sets are much better and actually fairly close to the specs but what I wanted for the immediate task was the 30-60-90. Emailed them again, no response again.

    Somewhere along the way I gave both pairs to my son to check on his very high end Keyance measuring system at work. Here are some jpgs of the reports.

    Chinese plan for failure?-306090_1_2.jpg Chinese plan for failure?-459045_1_2.jpg

    I sent this and a bunch of other stuff to them, still no response. Later I took it further directly to Amazon about the truth in advertising and why I couldn't append my review. Was never able to append the review to this date but what they did made me even more livid. Again keep in mind I Knew No way in Low Tide would I ever get those specs for $30 but would have settled for 5 times that not 20 Times that. Here is the current Spec from Amazon.

    Set contains two angle blocks, one 30°-60°-90° degree block and one 45°-45°-90° degree block
    Accuracy +/-20 seconds, 0.0001" per inch.
    Hardened steel Rockwell HRC 55
    3" long x 1/4" thick
    Includes padded fitted case

    The Bold Red is what was added to the description after all I had tried to discuss cordially with them...with no response. When I saw this I laughed out loud, then went off. Mainly because Amazon Allowed it in the first place, not that they have a clue about such specs but because I had called them, spoken to a human and had them start a ticket on it. Amazon's CS is one of the best out there in my opinion. Secondly because the spec is so ridiculous they could send you a pretzel and be legal. And they are still selling them¿

    At some level Caveat Emptor is always part of the equation in my book when buying in today's marketing-centric world, and even more so on a cheap and cheerful budget!

    Thanks again Marv I think this is something important for all communities but especially here at HMT's.

    ~PJ
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
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  16. #19
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
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    Then there are the 6 horsepower Sears shop vacuums...

    Craftsman 16 Gallon Wet/Dry Vacuum (00917761) - Wet/Dry Vacuums - Ace Hardware

    that can be run off a 15 amp household circuit.

    6 horsepower is, ignoring losses, 4474 watts. So, at a voltage of 120 volts, it should draw 37 amps. Yeah, right.

    In their defense they do list it as 6 PEAK horsepower. Of course, that raises the question; When exactly is this peak horsepower supposed to kick in? [and, when it does, will the breaker explosion wake the neighbors?]
    ---
    Regards, Marv


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  17. #20
    PJs
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    Me too Marv, I never could understand how they got 6 little horses in there to lift 550lbs of air in .17 second and not need a barn full of hay to feed them! Magic I guess...or misleading I would bet a pony on.
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
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