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Thread: Chinese plan for failure?

  1. #21
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
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    Does anyone even make an honest six horsepower motor that runs on 120 volt, single phase power with no concern for current?

    I'm not an expert but I doubt it. Motors that big are generally three phase and use higher voltage.

    As I've said before...If you treat intentional deception as lying, then virtually all advertising is lying.

    I saw an ad on TV last night for a $20 replica of a solid gold (non-negotiable) buffalo nickel once marketed by the US mint to collectors. They trumpeted the fact that it was plated with a massive 14 mg of pure 24kt gold.

    Gold is selling for ~ $36.70 / gm so that's a stunning 51 cents worth of gold plating.

    Viewers are first told about the solid gold coin. Then they hit them with the 14 mg, no doubt depending on the fact that the average American is totally ignorant of the metric system and wouldn't know a gram from a tram.
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz View Post
    Does anyone even make an honest six horsepower motor that runs on 120 volt, single phase power with no concern for current?

    I'm not an expert but I doubt it. Motors that big are generally three phase and use higher voltage.

    As I've said before...If you treat intentional deception as lying, then virtually all advertising is lying.
    I'm rusty but the basics for induction motors is HP=(V*A*Efficiency*Power Factor)/746. Were Efficiency is Pin/Pout in either watts or HP but there is a lot involved in that, like iron/copper and mechanical loss. Simplistically Power Factor is ratio of real power to apparent power (reactive power). The math of it is on Wiki...but basically cosine theta. Nema, IEEE & EPA set standards of efficiency for ranges of HP...typically ~85%. A rough value for PF is around 85-90% but you have to get the specs to know. By applying the the given numbers and formula jockey you get (746 x 6)/(120 x .85 x .9)= 48.75AC Amps which would require 8Ga wire and maybe larger for the 20' cord on it, making it even more useless to lug around.

    The Smoke and Mirrors come in because it it deemed a "Suction Motor" by the vacuum folks and started comparing horsepower to Inches of water and some to airflow (CFM). In this Craftsman puppies case it is rated at 170mph as a blower...not CFM and you can't get back to CFM with out a LOT more information. As for Peak Amps that has to do with removing the fan and loading the motor to almost burnout...what is normally called FLA (Full Load Amps)

    It's a convoluted mess and remembered looking into this a while back when I bought my little Shop Vac. Here is a pretty good link to dispelling the myths about Vacuums and HP/Watts/CFM and water column. Interesting they are a Vac company called Ristenbatt and been around since the 50's. I'd buy from them just because they posted some truth and at least trying to disclose what's behind the curtain...not magic...deception.

    Max case for an induction motor on a 15A/120V breaker should be no more than 12 Amps "running" and provided the PF is good enough to withstand startup currents and at least a 14Ga cord. NOT Full Load Amps, Suction Motor Amps or Peakaboo watts.

    Hope this helps some out there when trying to discern what you are actually getting for your hard earned Doh! ~PJ
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    Thanks to Ozwelder again for the headsup on Poorly Made in China book. Very interesting and it also gives weight to the hunches I've always had about several underlying cause and effects. This is NOT some redneck just doing ignorant China bashing, this is by a guy who was a trouble shooter for importers and speaks Chinese and actually sees China as his home.

    How many times have you picked up something in HF and thought "how can they make this for this much?". Answer, they can't forever. This is the ultimate come on deal where the greedy are duped by the even savier. And just like the other economic time bombs that don't go off right away, we're starting to see how the long game is unfolding.

    After reading the book I'm convinced the Chinese had nothing to do with the perceived "scam" of certain duplicate drill bits. They don't use them, they aren't in the trades, they have no clue. They do what they are ordered to do(most times). And the sad fact is some marketing buffoon who got the idea from probably his brother in law who actually works with his hands which marketing buffoon doesn't, just went for it. Meanwhile he missed the op of calling attention to the marketing angle and calling them a Tradesman Set. This would allert the buyer there's a difference, is short, and would apeal to the rugged hardworking hard hat wearing, working for beer thirty kinda guy who would buy a set just because those are the ones he breaks all the time.

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    The other thing about this marketing stuff beyond the lies and deceptions that Marv has brought forward here, are the points of Coercion. Likely the gold coin ad had them as well. TV ads in particular are full of sensory coercion tactics with jingles/music, pretty people and Packaging, and inviting sets, all the way to the current trend of having name brand products in a scene. Same goes for radio and magazine/news adds let a lone the internet ads we are inundated with now. Reminds me of the old show Max Headroom and Blipverts (subliminal messages embedded in TV via short blasts of A/V). The short lived show (wonder why) was a warning back then (interestingly in 1984)...and here we are with cameras on every street corner, drones everywhere....how long before we reach the Minority Report with personally targeted visual adds or worse.

    And don't get me started on Big Pharma ads and the repercussions of repeated $100k write offs for them, on top of the Billion$ R&D cost which only "Ad" to the torrent costs to the health care system that is already bloated way beyond recognition or value for a quick fix resulting in liver/kidney failure, nose bleeds or death!

    Lies, Deception, Coercion and Greed vs Truth, Honesty, Mutual Respect (for lack of antonym) and Charity; fits that old adage of having your head in the oven and feet in the freezer, but on average we are comfortable. "Polarity" is a pair of opposites with manifold degrees in between and there is no place on the thermometer where heat ceases and cold begins. Perhaps we could change our Vibration and find our Rhythm through Mind to turn this tide and find true comfort in becoming....dunnoż Uh Oh, the phone just rang with another marketing call...gotta go...
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
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    "Uh Oh, the phone just rang with another marketing call...gotta go..."

    LOL! Just add to the list, notice in everything you see on tv, movies, commercials, shows etc. There is never a steady shot that lasts for more than 9 seconds. Then you have this weird thing with hand held cameras that seem to be either to be manned by over cafienated freaks or palsy patients. The world is now got a bad case of the jitters with no calm and collected viewpoint to be seen. Scared and nervous are way more impulsive than calm and centered. So it's way easier to coerce scared and nervous to buy something or to convince them of something. We truly are living the Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times"! It's no coincidence The Art of War by Sun Su is read and known by all those on Madison Ave.

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  11. #26
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
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    These are some of my favorite (advertising) things... not!

    Automotive commercials that say nothing about the car's performance or the truck's load capacity offering instead lots of views of sliding around curves and hot chicks sitting next to the driver with a scarf blowing in the wind. Feel good about the product advertising.

    They do mention "first in class" but fail to mention the vehicle is the only one in the class.

    Having some drone read the words scrolling up the screen.

    People dancing with joy to advertise drugs you should ask your doctor to prescribe for you.

    People dancing to advertise almost anything except dance classes.
    ---
    Regards, Marv


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  13. #27
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    I'm not we really want to get started on what I am about to say but here goes.
    In addition to the car and or truck ads some offering as much as $9,9995.00 off the MSRP if you buy within the next 24 hours. Yeah right. the vehicle will still cost you $10,000.00 more than it could possibly be worth. you don;t believe me! just take a look at the price a demonstrater vehicle that just happens to have a few miles over the demonstrator mileage limit or one that was ordered without all of the useless gimmicks that any person who actually knows how to drive would probably never use anyway.
    Next on the list is the trumped up so called safety features which actually cause accidents by lulling drivers to believing that OH! I can drive as close to the vehicle in front of me because my anti collision alarm will automatically apply my NEVER FAIL anti-lock brakes in case of an emergency., and if I actually should be involved in a near head on collision my 15 dozen air bags will deploy and save my life.
    What ever happened to people actually being required to learn to observe proper following distances, lane change speeds,how to read weather and road conditions etc, etc. Now we have the shrills for the insurance companies qho would have you believe that everyone is going to be involved in an accident but when it happens all you have to do is make a call and everything including walking your dog is covered at the low low rate of $##00 per month. OH! you say you have driven for the past 45 years without a moving violation or being at fault or a re-portable accident and you have a verifiable of HOW many millions of miles??? Well we can certainly offer you a better rate than most other drivers. Lets see now UM, uh Um oh yes, no that won't do lets try this and the 2 letter mutterings go on for half an hour only tell you that since the State has experienced a significant increase in accidents your next year's rate is $###.00 more than last year's OH, you desire to prepay for the Whipple year in advance? Well now this means we have to use another carrier as your current carrier no longer accepts a whole year's premium in advance. You have long since passed frustration, and anger is beginning to give way to plotting revenge. when you finally receive a moderate reprieve when the agent finally gets around to entering the county of your residence and you learn that insuring 3 vehicles 2 of which are over 35 years old you actually wind up paying a few dollars less than insuring only 2 vehicles but your primary vehicle happens to now be the middle aged one the oldest being that it is 60 years old is only insured for special events and the newer one of the 3 is your secondary vehicle BIG DEAL you hardly ever use the plastic and recycled beer can thing anyway.SO much for the TV ads the insurance company constantly assaults you with anyway.


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