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Thread: Improving hydraulic bottle jack

  1. #11
    [email protected] tonyfoale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhengineer View Post
    I'm curious what GOOGLE thinks a "big MF pipe wrench" is.
    It thinks it is a pipe wrench, to me they have always been called Stillsons.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhengineer View Post
    Does the ram creep back under load? That would most likely be the check valve. I'm glad to share what I know with you.
    Maybe you misunderstood my original post. I have no problem with the main piston seal nor creep. Certainly not since I honed the cylinder. There was a leak from the ram wiper O-ring seal which made a mess because the jack is mounted upside down and so the whole of the reservoir oil and the header tank was acting on it. It couldn't have happened with a right way up jack.

    Anyway I have now removed the outer cover and I feed and drain directly into a low mounted reservoir, so if anything leaks the maximum quantity is only the tiny amount in the O-ring groove above the O-ring, only a couple of ml at most. I'll make a separate post describing the current configuration.

    Many thanks for your willingness to help.

    BTW where do you live in NH? I lived there for 3 years, 2008-2010. I lived in New Boston and worked in Bedford.

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    Just a word of warning to anyone messing with jacks or hydraulics in general.
    DO NOT USE BRAKE OR CLUTCH HYDRAULIC FLUID. That stuff is different from real hydraulic oil.

    You can get "Jack oil" from auto parts stores in the US. Around here it is not common and I use oil labelled for the hydraulic systems in Citroens. Probably the same as stuff labelled as jack oil? Power steering oil is probably similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    It thinks it is a pipe wrench, to me they have always been called Stillsons.

    Maybe you misunderstood my original post. I have no problem with the main piston seal nor creep. Certainly not since I honed the cylinder. There was a leak from the ram wiper O-ring seal which made a mess because the jack is mounted upside down and so the whole of the reservoir oil and the header tank was acting on it. It couldn't have happened with a right way up jack.
    That's telling me oil was leaking past the ram cup. I've been operating my 20-ton press for at least 30 years with an inverted bottle jack without losing a single drop of oil. Of course, it's not a Horrible Freight jack either.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    Anyway I have now removed the outer cover and I feed and drain directly into a low mounted reservoir, so if anything leaks the maximum quantity is only the tiny amount in the O-ring groove above the O-ring, only a couple of ml at most. I'll make a separate post describing the current configuration.

    Many thanks for your willingness to help.

    BTW where do you live in NH? I lived there for 3 years, 2008-2010. I lived in New Boston and worked in Bedford.
    I'm in Franklin. New Boston is nice, very rural; no one around to bother you or stick their nose in your business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    Just a word of warning to anyone messing with jacks or hydraulics in general.
    DO NOT USE BRAKE OR CLUTCH HYDRAULIC FLUID. That stuff is different from real hydraulic oil.

    You can get "Jack oil" from auto parts stores in the US. Around here it is not common and I use oil labelled for the hydraulic systems in Citroens. Probably the same as stuff labelled as jack oil? Power steering oil is probably similar.
    I can't count the jacks I've rebuilt because the moronic owner used brake fluid instead of proper oil. In a pinch, you can use straight, non-detergent 30 weight (jack oil is actually 10 weight). I use ATF because it has no additives that will harm the seals and it can tolerate long periods of idleness. About the worse thing you can do to hydraulics after running them dry is to not use them at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhengineer View Post
    That's telling me oil was leaking past the ram cup.
    One can not make that assumption based on the evidence.
    If it was the ram cup that sprung a leak, the oil should have been kept in place by the O-ring wiper seal, which it wasn't.
    On the other hand if the wiper seal leaked, which it did, then that alone gives no reason to suspect that the cup seal had leaked also, there was plenty of oil in the outer canister and my header tank to leak out without the cup seal leaking as well.

    Yes New Boston is nice and I could make as much noise as I wanted. My house backed on to 500 acres of woods so plenty of trail riding and dog walking opportunity. The winters were too long and cold for my liking, my first winter there was the year of the famous ice storm. I assumed that it was normal winter weather there and I struggled into work to find only one other had made it in. It was only then that I realised that it was exceptional.
    Still, I was sad to leave when my visa ran out, I liked living there.

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    ON the machines that I used to build and my hydraulic elevators I mostly used Dextron II or Mercon ATF never type "F" because it had a formulation specifically designed for the way Ford designed their transmissions. up until sometime in th elate 80's or early 90's the materials in Ford transmissions required a special formulation or blend, not sure exactly why they did this but the practice was discontinued so far as I know, as my 93 350 uses Mercon
    In NJ and NYC where my machines were mounted outside and could sit for hours overnight I found that for winter use they would be sluggish for the first hour of operation or until the oil in the 100 or so gallons in the tank and the 1000 ft of lines had made several circulations. Keeping the tanks warm only helped a little as there was as many as 50 cylinders and the lines that were cold soaked. My solution was to use transformer oil which is 5w, expensive but effective though it's lower lubricity could shorten the pump life.
    For hydraulic jacks I use jack oil or clear power steering oil, if I have to use standard hydraulic oil I use the lighter duty and never the heavy duty rough service type as that has special blends to prevent thinning at high temps and is slightly thicker when cold. I have found some 5w non detergent motor oils in th epast that seemed to work just fine in jacks and port a power ram systems
    Never try to tell me it can't be done
    When I have to paint I use http://kbs.justoldtrucks.com/

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  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    One can not make that assumption based on the evidence.
    If it was the ram cup that sprung a leak, the oil should have been kept in place by the O-ring wiper seal, which it wasn't.
    On the other hand if the wiper seal leaked, which it did, then that alone gives no reason to suspect that the cup seal had leaked also, there was plenty of oil in the outer canister and my header tank to leak out without the cup seal leaking as well.
    Think about it Tony, the only way oil can get to the o-ring is to leak past the ram cup. The oil is supposed to only be on the high pressure side of the ram cup. The o-ring is just a dirt & debris wiper. It does nothing to seal the oil. If there is oil on the low pressure side of the cup there's something seriously wrong with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    Yes New Boston is nice and I could make as much noise as I wanted. My house backed on to 500 acres of woods so plenty of trail riding and dog walking opportunity. The winters were too long and cold for my liking, my first winter there was the year of the famous ice storm. I assumed that it was normal winter weather there and I struggled into work to find only one other had made it in. It was only then that I realised that it was exceptional. Still, I was sad to leave when my visa ran out, I liked living there.
    Get a new visa and come on back or come in through Mexico like everyone else does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhengineer View Post
    Think about it Tony, the only way oil can get to the o-ring is to leak past the ram cup. The oil is supposed to only be on the high pressure side of the ram cup. The o-ring is just a dirt & debris wiper. It does nothing to seal the oil. If there is oil on the low pressure side of the cup there's something seriously wrong with it.
    No, no, no. The jack is upsidedown, The whole thing is full of oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    No, no, no. The jack is upsidedown, The whole thing is full of oil.
    Ye, I understand. Mine is also upside-down but the oil stays on the pressure side (top) of the ram cup.

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhengineer View Post
    Ye, I understand. Mine is also upside-down but the oil stays on the pressure side (top) of the ram cup.
    Unless I misunderstand your earlier comments, yours is a proper stand alone hydraulic ram, in which case your comments were valid. However, I thought that it was clear that I was talking about an inverted bottle jack based press as I referenced in the top post. See here Inverting an hydraulic jack for a workshop press.

    However, last night I made another separate post outlining my latest modifications which essentially convert a bottle jack to a simple single cylinder style of ram, albeit with an integral pump. So now there will be no leakage unless the cup seal leaks. If that happens there will be no mess because I have incorporated a drain.
    See here: More on improvements to bottle jack shop press.

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