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Thread: Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.

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    That spacer is the first useful thing I have turned on my metal lathe. I am a rookie with a metal lathe my only instruction has been from utube videos.
    I found out that there is a taper to the inner diameter of the old gear. The first spacer I turned was loose on one end. The second spacer will need hammered on, and I have to cut a keyway and add set screws? There are three different shaft locking mechanisms between the new and the old. Any idea on which I should use or give preference to?
    I don't know what kind of stock you have laying around or if you also have a mill but since I don't have any key way broaches(yet!) and the more I look at that gear for the motor and your descriptions I'd do a semi major rework. The inner dia. Should not be tapered unless the shaft was tapered. Along with that crude key way and the suspect motor mess it all points to some serious jury riggin'. If you have the stock(and there's room) I'd bore the gear out large enough to make a new sleeve for the gear that has a shoulder on it and weld it to the gear(unless it's brass or something other than steel). That way you can bypass the key way fitments and go with two set screws. The way I do these kind of set screws that are expected to replace a key way is once I know right where they are supposed to be tighten them down so they leave a mark on the shaft and then drill the shaft 1/16" with the same size drill in those spots giving the set screws a recess to bite into. They can't slip that way, but it has to be done last because it's tough to relocate. More 2c poking around in the dark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    The MC-60 as far as I can find is a PWM but that kind of stuff is above my pay grade. Like I mentioned it's a really common controller it turns out. There's even talk about it on the CNC forums and I guess there's mods for it. I wish there was a pin out for the controller that was on the mill I got gym motor off of, but unlike the MC-60 all the contols connected thru a single ribbon plug. Very pro and tidy. It also sat on top of a unit that is all choke/coils ? and the motor output went from controller board thu one of those coils then to the motor. Do you know what they are for? Speaking of eBay, there's a guy on there selling mill motors with what looks like the stock MC-60 controller with vid demos. In the demo there's a smaller coil like mine and he says" you don't even need this, very simple" he keeps saying.

    I have no idea if this box I got is going to work long term but I like the control layout. And the use of a knob for speed means theres no memory or poking the control panel for speed control. But the box is plastic and has no mount tabs and looking at all these controllers they use the al unit they are built on as a heat sink so I don't want to drill into the box to mount for fear of drilling into the board/heat sink and it being enclosed like this is it going to get hot? Too many questions for a poor noob.......
    I did a quick search for the mc-60, its definitely a pwm and are in lots of different mills like you said. was the choke part a donut with some windings around it? if so it is for limiting interfering "dirty" ac current frequencies. then let "ckean" DC frequency pass thru if the. DC motor can run without it I would suspect there to still be long term problems like shorter motor life maybe speed control and or power output. maybe someone else might chime in I don't know much on the subject either unfortunately.

    as for mounting I would just open the plastic box up if possible. then find a spot on the extruded al heat sink that is out of the way. run a bit and bolt through the plastic and metal in the same spot Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150825_124048.jpg
    you might have some space to work with like this one
    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150825_124153.jpgLooking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150825_124518.jpg
    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150825_124501.jpg
    this is sort of how the other Taiwanese controller was mounted. the heat sink is bolted to half of the mounting box. I am planning to make a dust cover and bolt on a support to the galvanized steel sheet. the fan from the motor blew air over the board so I will add a small fan to replace it.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    I don't know what kind of stock you have laying around or if you also have a mill but since I don't have any key way broaches(yet!) and the more I look at that gear for the motor and your descriptions I'd do a semi major rework. The inner dia. Should not be tapered unless the shaft was tapered. Along with that crude key way and the suspect motor mess it all points to some serious jury riggin'. If you have the stock(and there's room) I'd bore the gear out large enough to make a new sleeve for the gear that has a shoulder on it and weld it to the gear(unless it's brass or something other than steel). That way you can bypass the key way fitments and go with two set screws. The way I do these kind of set screws that are expected to replace a key way is once I know right where they are supposed to be tighten them down so they leave a mark on the shaft and then drill the shaft 1/16" with the same size drill in those spots giving the set screws a recess to bite into. They can't slip that way, but it has to be done last because it's tough to relocate. More 2c poking around in the dark.
    with the taper in the gear i was assuming that in was put there to retain the gear as there is not a set screw just the keyway. what would have kept the gear on just the keyway? It's a pretty weird design either way, I can see why designs have changed since the time this machine was made

    great suggestions about the shoulder I will have to see what kind of round stock I could make it from. with the last version I just used a piece of plumbing scrap pipe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jere View Post
    with the taper in the gear i was assuming that in was put there to retain the gear as there is not a set screw just the keyway. what would have kept the gear on just the keyway? It's a pretty weird design either way, I can see why designs have changed since the time this machine was made

    great suggestions about the shoulder I will have to see what kind of round stock I could make it from. with the last version I just used a piece of plumbing scrap pipe.
    yup, old stuff is a marvel and a head scratcher sometimes. I've not run into a tapered shaft with a gear like you have. After I posted that dawned on me, how did that thing stay on? It must have to do with the gear being helical cut and it thrusts itself into the taper while under load. dunno. Ingenious but far more work IMHO than set screws.

    But you need a shoulder in order to do set screws so is there enough clearance in the oil box? Hate for you to go to all that trouble and get stumped by clearance. And what are you going to do about sealing the shaft? You might get away with a big dished (towards the gear) washer spaced away from the gear on the shaft as an old oil slinger. Worked ok on the front of crank in my old aircooled VW engines as long as the PCV wasn't plugged or it didn't have too much blow by. That way you wouldn't need to come up with some kind of rubber shaft seal. Details, details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jere View Post
    I did a quick search for the mc-60, its definitely a pwm and are in lots of different mills like you said. was the choke part a donut with some windings around it? if so it is for limiting interfering "dirty" ac current frequencies. then let "ckean" DC frequency pass thru if the. DC motor can run without it I would suspect there to still be long term problems like shorter motor life maybe speed control and or power output. maybe someone else might chime in I don't know much on the subject either unfortunately.

    as for mounting I would just open the plastic box up if possible. then find a spot on the extruded al heat sink that is out of the way. run a bit and bolt through the plastic and metal in the same spot Click image for larger version. 

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    you might have some space to work with like this one
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    this is sort of how the other Taiwanese controller was mounted. the heat sink is bolted to half of the mounting box. I am planning to make a dust cover and bolt on a support to the galvanized steel sheet. the fan from the motor blew air over the board so I will add a small fan to replace it.
    That was my guess on the coils too. The gym model controller I have is a big double decker thing and includes the inclination gear motor controller. I know my electron theory, can use a voltmeter and can solder really good, but sometimes I wish I would have applied myself more diligently in my electronics classes in high school. Because I have AMG(anti math gene) I thought by my second year I was not suited for the field. That was waaaaay before calculators So I know just enough to get myself in trouble and don't want to get into deep yogurt. The electronics part of this whole thing is my weakest point, so this thread is exactly what I was hoping to pull some of the folks who are good at electronics and could help maybe lend a hand to drop 'er down a gear and give some pointers.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    yup, old stuff is a marvel and a head scratcher sometimes. I've not run into a tapered shaft with a gear like you have. After I posted that dawned on me, how did that thing stay on? It must have to do with the gear being helical cut and it thrusts itself into the taper while under load. dunno. Ingenious but far more work IMHO than set screws.

    But you need a shoulder in order to do set screws so is there enough clearance in the oil box? Hate for you to go to all that trouble and get stumped by clearance. And what are you going to do about sealing the shaft? You might get away with a big dished (towards the gear) washer spaced away from the gear on the shaft as an old oil slinger. Worked ok on the front of crank in my old aircooled VW engines as long as the PCV wasn't plugged or it didn't have too much blow by. That way you wouldn't need to come up with some kind of rubber shaft seal. Details, details.
    I think there should be space for the shoulder, the old motors ballbearings cutout left some breathing room. I am thinking about using a rubber grommet as a seal. I found a grommet that was left from when I removed the ac system from my car. It fits in 1.5 inch opening but tapers down to 1\4 inch hole. I like the oil slinger idea too I could use both to be on the safe side. The old motor was coated in dried up oil inside and out so that is a good thing to avoid if at all possible.


    Update on progress (or lack thereof )
    The past couple of days have not been going smoothly so progress is coming along slowly. My 34 year old jet 4x6 bandsaw need is having some wear issues with the upper wheel. I switched to a grinder with a cutting disk (but had to make a run to hf to get some cutting disks), cut a good amount of steel and then sheared all the teeth off of the grinders gears. Back to hf again with the dead grinder I went.( I am not shedding any tears on the cheap grinder but it was a waste of time. )Somewhere along the line (maybe hefting around a bandsaw or the benchtop lathe ) I pulled a muscle in my rotator cuff. So far the pulled muscle has not been a fun experience. Hopefully things should be back on track in a few days.

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    I wonder if you could get away with some grease on those gears instead of the oil bath? The observation of oil being all over the motor is what I'd expect to find in a situation like that. Another reason for belt drive IMHO.

    I have a lot of HFTs but I don't bother with their grinders. Actually my time as a fabricator and it being my main tool made me a total Makita fan. While everybody else's grinders were quitting my original 4" Makita that I'd picked up from an inlaw and rebuilt just wouldn't die until all the abuse on a brutally hot day cooked it. Used nothing but Makita since, tending toward the 4.5 and 5" models.

    I'm sorry about your shoulder and I hope time and rest work their cure on it. I've tended to work alone in my career and as I've gotten older gotten more and more safety conscious. And more about work smarter not harder. 10yrs ago I bought one of those folding 2 ton HFT engine hoists and it's become indispensable. I never have pulled an engine with it (and don't ever intend to)but it's how I lifted my 9x20 lathe, my mill, the motor off the mill, the camper shell on my pickup and on and on. Because it folds up means it doesn't take up much room in the shed too.

    Take it easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    I wonder if you could get away with some grease on those gears instead of the oil bath? The observation of oil being all over the motor is what I'd expect to find in a situation like that. Another reason for belt drive IMHO.

    I have a lot of HFTs but I don't bother with their grinders. Actually my time as a fabricator and it being my main tool made me a total Makita fan. While everybody else's grinders were quitting my original 4" Makita that I'd picked up from an inlaw and rebuilt just wouldn't die until all the abuse on a brutally hot day cooked it. Used nothing but Makita since, tending toward the 4.5 and 5" models.

    I'm sorry about your shoulder and I hope time and rest work their cure on it. I've tended to work alone in my career and as I've gotten older gotten more and more safety conscious. And more about work smarter not harder. 10yrs ago I bought one of those folding 2 ton HFT engine hoists and it's become indispensable. I never have pulled an engine with it (and don't ever intend to)but it's how I lifted my 9x20 lathe, my mill, the motor off the mill, the camper shell on my pickup and on and on. Because it folds up means it doesn't take up much room in the shed too.

    Take it easy.
    For the oil bath I am thinking about redline heavy shockproof gear oil. I have read that transmission oil works well in situations like cold gear boxes and higher rpm. Grease would be a good solution aside from the high rpm, and the unheated winters ( were grease could really thicken up and bog the motor or trip the breaker) The gear oil is pretty thick stuff ,and is recommended for race car transmissions that get a lot of abuse (I have it for my Nissan that has maybe 2 or 3x the factory torque and has a notoriously weak 3rd gear). It's synthetic so it won't absorb moisture like non synthetic. And last hopefully it will extend the life of the gears so I won't have to mess with them for a good while.

    I am considering maybe using rtv silicone to replace the old paper gaskets also for automotive use. That or more likely automotive spray tack on cereal box like cardboard gaskets. I have to make sure its compatible with the trans oil before hand

    Thanks for the tip about the grinder! I have had a few 7 inch grinders from sears that take some heavy abuse. Usually the only thing that got them were large wire cups. The brand line of those grinders was discontinued so i will keep an eye peeled for the makitas.the harbor freight grinders seem to only be good for short quick jobs.

    Thanks for the tip on the engine lift too, I will have to keep that one in mind too. What do you attach the engine lift's hook to on your lathe by the way?

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    I really don't know what to say about the gear oil. I was a total air cooled VW man until I couldn't get the German parts anymore and converted over to Nissan in the 80's. And in the brutal heat of Central Valley CA always ran Castrol 20-50 in the summer. So I always thought heavy was better. But then when they started using lighter and lighter oils in engines and even motor oils in transmissions in motorcycles I had to rethink that whole thing. To me those gears are so heavy duty in the saw as to be overkill. I would tend to put something like Mobile1 in it as that stuff is incredibly sticky and won't break down and gum up. In a splash system like that unless you have a leak the drive gear is always going to be picking up oil out of the sump.

    For me it's always about finding the sweet spot. 7/9" grinders are too big for me because I don't like to use two hands to hold the thing up. I'm usually holding on to the work with one hand and the other holding the grinder. Mikita was also the only one who still had the thumb switch instead of the paddle switch. I hate paddle switches and see them as totally unsafe. If you've ever had to set one down quick and wasn't watching where you dropped it only to have the paddle bump a piece of metal and start back up on the bench you're a better man than I. Paddle switches make me grab the grinder too far back too. But with Makita like so many lines the lo end are throw aways so I avoid them. They used to have a heavy duty 4" but last time I was in the market they didn't. The 4.5 and especially the 5" were the ones you'll only find in welding supply stores. That to me says something. But when your grinder is your main tool for sawing, heavy grinding and finishing you gotta have something that lasts and is light enough and powerful enough. Heavy is not safe either IMHO. In the field you usually don't have a vise and are lucky if you have a bench to clamp to so having a grinder it took to hands to hold up was not safe.

    My seal and forget is from my old days in rebuilding VW's and aircraft. If it's machined metal on metal like case halves good old AeroSeal#3. Never hardens and never leaks. I've got a bottle of it from the 70's and it's still good. Very old school obviously. Straight RTV seeps over time in my experience, but if you do the cereal box gasket no problem.

    For the hoist I used a combo of tow chain(also HFT) and a huge truckers hooked ratchet strap. I have a huge assortment of straps and chains from my days as a millwright. I also have an attachment I've made for the end of the hoist. It slips into the tubing of the hoist arm so I could reach under the middle of the camper shell so I could install and take it off my pickup by myself. Got rid of the old Nissan Hard Body and its shell and thought why am I keeping the camper shell gooseneck? But I had to pull the humongous 2hp motor off my mill and it worked perfectly for that. In my area cl has hoists all the time, but not always the folding one and you have to know the price because these silly people want new or better price for the things. I think I got mine on special for like $175, I can't build it for that.

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    I know what you mean about the hoists being so cheap you can't beat just the cost of the steel. I have thought about buying used lifts to make an English wheel at one point. I see them come up with engine stands for 60-70 dollars fairly often.

    I will see if I can find some aeroseal as you suggested too. I hate rtv and only get a good seal with in 1 out of every three uses. I have pulled an oil pan a year after application and the stuff was still wet in the middle.

    back on topic I got a little work done
    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150831_023540.jpg
    had to grind out the end cap of the old motors housing. there were some "embossed" sections in the casting that looked like they were intended to be removed for air circulation. I ground those out and cut out the center section of the cast section that mounts to the bs body. No going back now for better or worse. there wasn't clearance by just a small amount but now the mill motor without the fan fits in the old motors housing.

    I also knocked out the center section coils from the old motor. they took some convincing with my engineers hammer and largest punch.

    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150831_023342.jpg

    here is part of the motor mount, which still needs some work. it will get a another section of angle and have all 4 sections tied together. I am trying the original mounting location based off of the old motors bolt holes. if the alignment is not right I will slot the holes on one section of the plate and adjust as necessary.

    i had to stop "welding" as I found what I assumed was steel rg45 was really some kind of copper coated brazing rod which melted like a messy crayon on to the angle.

    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150831_023148.jpg
    the housing loosely sitting over the motor mount

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