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Thread: WWII hand-powered lathe from Liberty Ship - photo

  1. #31
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
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    Years ago I worked on the design of fire control systems for high-energy laser weapons. A multi-megawatt laser doesn't have to stare very long into the sensor of an IR-guided missile before it's blind; stare a little longer and there's a hole through its computer. With other forms of missile guidance you have to stare a bit longer but, done miles out from impact, the chance of the missile scoring a hit, or even staying airborne, is pretty small.

    In those days, these lasers were too big to put in aircraft, but a multi-thousand ton warship would make a good platform.

    My point is that, unless you have the proper security clearances, you have no idea about what may be coming in the way of defending land and sea based assets. The Phalanx...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

    works for close-in missile defense [even the Iowa museum ship has a couple], but laser weapons can engage at greater ranges.

    All warfare is a tit-for-tat contest between offensive and defensive weapon designers and the dynamics of that are unknown to us.
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  2. #32
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    ALL the preceding strategic opinions, and realities of engagement are true. One thing has been over-looked, though Frank S alluded to it. The most powerful instrument the US Navy has, isn't so much of a weapon; deterrence. Deterrence, also known as projection of power, has a most certain effect. Whether the Battleships are preserved for use is subject to conjecture; re-commissioning would be a serious undertaking. Yet even at rest, they prove that effect remains. When shelling of known ammo dump inside a mountain proved successful targeting by endless secondary explosions, those who discredit naval gunfire were taken aback. Sometime later, there were interrogations of captives that also reinforced a theory from long before. 'Technology' such as cruise missiles have their measure of psychological and tactical impact, but are seen as something that can be countered. When a BB slid into station, far over the horizon, you knew something would happen.
    That 16" round, 1900lbs or more, traveling at 2500 fps (820m/s) or more, is coming. Fired 20+ miles away, virtually no heat signature, comparatively small profile (and smaller yet in section), substantially faster than most jet fighters, few if any stationary or mobile platform has much chance of 'shooting it down'.
    Last edited by Toolmaker51; 10-03-2017 at 03:01 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Someone asked me several years ago why there are so many storage facilities for mothballed Military hardware such as the Navy's hypothetical ghost fleet. or why ships such as the USS Texas and the USS Alabama 2 museum pieces were still listed at the time as merely inactive status, the then 430,000+ tactical & combat vehicles or equipment and the infamous Bone yard.
    He asked why not simply cut everything up and recycle them.
    To this I responded with a few questions and statements. First off I asked him if he had read anything about the shortages of materials, the sacrifices even the hardships every US citizen encountered and willingly endured during not only WWI but WWII as well.
    He said that he remembered some of it from history classes in school but those things could never happen now.
    OH and what makes you feel that the US of A and her citizens are now immune to such shortages as Iron copper bauxite titanium lead magnesium rubber and a host of other materials.
    Because he said we can recycle nearly everything to make new products with the billions of tons of junk already laying around.
    True to an extent not everything is 100% recyclable plus the energy to recycle certain things can approach 50% of the cost to mine from raw materials now lets just suppose for a minute that a conflict on a global scale were to spring up out of nowhere lets further suppose that for reasons unknown the other 2 near supper powers decided that they were going to absolutely sit this one out with the exception of possible black marketing to a few select Waring factions. Could we of the United States at our current level of production or could our production of weapons platforms be ramped up to the levels they were back in the days to the previous 2 world wars given that today's technology is far more complex, to enable us to protect ourselves and help friendly allies in a timely enough manner? Given that it takes as much as 15 years to construct a large naval vessel and as few as 50 new high tech war planes can be made in a year running full staff at 24/7 Remember that a Military fighter jet might have cost only a few million dollars to produce in the 60s now can cost hundreds of millions to produce and take many months longer and Just how long would it take to build a battery of tanks to replace an entire brigade's compliment?
    Lets take another look at things there are several Navel vessels mothballed or used as museum pieces which although a complete upgrade to the latest modern weaponry might take a few years for any one item they already have at least 1 thing going for them THEY float now or could in a short time modifying them to launch short range missals being able to get them to maneuver under their own power even if antiquated may not be much of a difficult task re arming them with their original weapons where possible would be no great task in most cases.
    Of the 4000 + existing aircraft located at the bone yard many might only need a really good servicing and re armed to be put in the air the added plus to that although they are not considered by today's standards to be able to go head to head against modern forces. the shear numbers of them could be the tipping point to shortening a conflict. all this would be without the need for 5 year old children to squish the last remaining amount of tooth paste out of a tin tube or to donate their tricycles and wagons to the war effort.
    Last edited by Frank S; 10-03-2017 at 06:12 PM.
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  5. #34
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    Boneyard?

    Any conventional scrapyard doesn't vinyl wrap, carefully stage like models, have partially cannibalized items on blocks, or maintain general good order. Little thought falls on dry atmospheric conditions that aid preservation, or locations almost devoid of serious weather.
    Can't think of any instance where they regarded a trove of apparent discards 'assets'.
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    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

    Dwight Eisenhower

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    Dr Stan, please accept my apologies for being wrong. If you served in the navy, then you would be correct.

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    Frank S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolmaker51 View Post
    Any conventional scrapyard doesn't vinyl wrap, carefully stage like models, have partially cannibalized items on blocks, or maintain general good order. Little thought falls on dry atmospheric conditions that aid preservation, or locations almost devoid of serious weather.
    Can't think of any instance where they regarded a trove of apparent discards 'assets'.
    One of the primary reasons for the near perfectly cataloged order to the planes stored in the Bone yard is all around the world many countries still have the same models of some of these planes in their standing military even in our own armed forces some of these planes are still being used plus the bone yard is a depository for civilian aircraft to a lessor extent. spare parts for aircraft are expensive and there is nothing wrong with placing used but fully inspected and certified parts on another flying aircraft. A friend of mine regularly receives load contracts to haul both to and from there He describes the place as phenomenal the way it is laid out there are areas where fully functional flight worthy aircraft are stored not only stored but maintained although at a minimal level other areas where the aircraft are in various stages of cannibalization up to a point as each assembly is removed the adjacent surfaces are wrapped and protected the daily mission status is hugely expensive but at the same time profitable
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdhatter3 View Post
    Dr Stan, please accept my apologies for being wrong. If you served in the navy, then you would be correct.
    I'm a disabled Vietnam Vet who has seen first hand the folly of war. The only thing it does is create destruction. There are no winners as everyone is a looser.

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    No disrespect to you Dr Stan, (and thank you for your service), but the nazis were clear losers in WW2.
    BTW, I agree that it does create destruction, but from the ashes of "that phoenix" arose the NATO Alliance

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    Quote Originally Posted by 12bolts View Post
    No disrespect to you Dr Stan, (and thank you for your service), but the nazis were clear losers in WW2.
    BTW, I agree that it does create destruction, but from the ashes of "that phoenix" arose the NATO Alliance
    Your reply is nothing but a disrespectful political statement. As such it has no business being part of this forum.

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