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  1. #41
    Frank S's Avatar
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    C-bag it would probably flip it on its noodle but since it has electrics, 2 of the motors could probably be reversed to a low speed causing negative thrust
    Never try to tell me it can't be done
    When I have to paint I use http://kbs.justoldtrucks.com/

  2. #42
    C-Bag's Avatar
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    You're probably right Frank. But landing is the trickiest part of flying for me, and it always seems things happen too fast as your getting close to the ground. But JR seems more adept at this whole thing so it will probably be no big deal.

  3. #43
    Frank S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    You're probably right Frank. But landing is the trickiest part of flying for me, and it always seems things happen too fast as your getting close to the ground. But JR seems more adept at this whole thing so it will probably be no big deal.
    I know you're right. One time while in Australia A mate of mine decided the best way for me to see the country was by plane.
    So at the rental shop the guy asked him who's your pilot today mate? to this he replied that big yank out there getting ready to open the cowl to inspect the engine.
    The rental guy yelled out to me Yank You got to slam the latch real hard or it will come open on take off. And what ever you do don't give it full throttle if you're air speed in under 55 I just had the mounting plate replaced last week.
    Later while Cullen and I were flying along I asked why did the guy ask who was your pilot today.
    Aw mate it is an old joke between him and I, They pulled my ticket for 6 months for landing cross ways to the runway.The reason he didn't ask to see your's was he knows that I'm going to be doing the driving anyway. He just wanted to hear me say I had a pilot so he could have a partially legal out for when I try to crash this thing.again The air speed thing was because this thing has more horse power than a bloody crop duster it will climb vertical till it runs out of air
    Never try to tell me it can't be done
    When I have to paint I use http://kbs.justoldtrucks.com/

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  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Bag View Post
    You know looking at that thing, it looks so slick how in the world are you going to get it down to some kind of sane approach speed? There's no flaps or spoilers......be very interesting me thinks.
    Well that is what keeps it interesting! I knew this was going to be a heavy bird so I did not add flaps or drag rudders which could have been 3 or 4 more ounces. The plane might be ok with that but I did not want to add the extra weight. Trying to keep it simple. Taking her out for a "taxi" test today. I do have 700 feet of asphalt for landing and some pretty long run off at the ends but I hope not to need that.

    I am also trying a new feature on this plane which I will call dynamic braking. With the props turning slowly there is considerable drag created as opposed to stopping them completely. So when landing I need to keep a very low throttle setting after touch down. Ahhhh what fun!!

    Cheers, JR
    Last edited by jjr2001; 01-30-2017 at 07:11 AM.

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  7. #45
    PJs
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    Nice looking bird JR. Looks like the real thing with that paint! Like the way it shimmy's in the sun and those muted decals are a nice touch. That color silver is going to be a bit tricky to see in the distance for sure, especially coming or going...definitely Stealth ;-) with hardly any noise from the motors. That nose on shot gives it some provenance with your gear. BTW that friction bearing for the wheels idea is pretty cool, haven't ever seen anything like it. Is the nose wheel articulating for taxi? Seems like it would have a pretty big turn radius with out it.

    Terrific build JR and inspiring!! Good luck with your test flight and love to see some video if you can. Thanks for sharing it with us!
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
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  8. #46
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    Dynamic braking does work to a certain extent JR w/piston engines, but it will be interesting to see how it works with your electric motors. I'm glad they have put regeneration when you let off the throttle on our Chevy Volt as that causes the drag like an engine. I got to pondering Frank's reversers idea and wondered if you could even do that with these controls. Of course there's no way you'd want to do that in the air and it sounds like you have more than enough runway anyway. Just more silly armchair second guessing on my part. I hope it all goes good.

    I started watching Plane Ressurection on Netflix and to their credit there's none of the stupid half baked internal conflict I've seen in the car shows and guns shows I've tried to watch. Lots of history and details about the plane and the restorer. An interesting tidbit was early on the the Battle of Britain they decided to help spotters identify friendlies was to paint the bottom of one wing black and the other wing white. Maybe this would help with your "stealth" as I think I would lose orientation of this plane very fast

    Another coinkydink in reference to Frank's story was one of the two restorers was talking about flying all over Australia and finding a P51 to restore. Sounds like an incredible trip.

    My very first flight was while working at that rice ranch I mentioned. There was an old hanger on the back of the property where there had been a crop dusting operation but had folded decades before. It was where they stored the 6 John Deer 7700 harvesters. In the evenings as I left I started seeing this small plane buzzing around the back of the hanger. I went out to prep one of the 7700's and there sat a Aeronca Chief with no doors. It was the one I'd seen buzzing the rice fields.

    Turned out they were chasing off the mud hens with it and then when the mud hens got used to it they would actually fly up next to them and shot gun them in the air! That's why no doors. Turned out it was a character I'd known in high school and one night while I was working on the harvester he showed up for one of their flights. He asked if I wanted to go for a quick turn around the patch, like a dummy I said yeah. It was bad enough it was all cloth covered and the door if was there was not much, but without the door I was literally hanging out as it kinda wrapped around you and your feet were at an angle to be on the little floorboard. He made sure I had my seatbelt on at least. The strip was where they kept their horses since the crop dusters had flown the coop so was rough as a cob. We took out of the hanger and started for the line of eucalyptus trees/creek that was one end of the "runway". The other end went out over the road and had no obstructions so I assumed we'd go down to the trees and turn around and take off over the road.

    Nope, no run up, no stop and check, just ball to the wall straight for the trees! I knew this guy was crazy, and he kept looking at me as we barreled towards the trees which were literally at the end of the runway. We lifted off seems right before the trees that were basically a solid wall that was a 100' taller than us and did a hard left bank(I could look at him and see the ground through his missing door) and paralleled the line of trees and out over the fields, climbing the whole time. We did a big circle and came back at the trees, all the while him yelling at me "when the dusters used to be here they kept the trees trimmed" and he skimmed the top of the trees and dove what seemed like straight down where all I could see was the runway/pasture through the wind screen and what seemed like the last possible second pulled up and we floated down in front of the hanger. Luckily I'd already gone to the bathroom but I can truly say I'd never been so terrified in my whole life. I never even tried to fly in a plane again till I went to aircraft school some 10yrs later.
    Last edited by C-Bag; 01-30-2017 at 09:15 PM.

  9. #47
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    Sounds like he just wanted to get a reaction from you. Nothin like open air flying!. I never did any and won't be doing that any time soon.

    Well I did not get the chance to use "dynamic braking. I did all my braking prior to landing. Took the bird to the field today, trimmed it for a nice straight takeoff using my new brakes. That worked great. First run was all over the place and then I increased braking tension. The extra tension really helped the straight line takeoff.

    Here is the takeoff vid:

    The reason for the takeoff only vid is that the landing did not happen. It was more of a violent auger into the earth with the aircraft totally re-kitted. My camera guy had just stopped filming when the snap happened. Almost more parts than what I built it with..

    Anyhow here is the analysis:
    I needed to add down trim as the flight progressed, I was only up to about 20 clicks and not done yet but she
    was gaining too much altitude. ( the bird wanted to climb). Lateral trim was good at 16 clicks. I let the speed get too slow as I was adjusting elevator trim and then SNAP...Violent. Ok, so now we need to make a new one. This time I am going to use my Hot Wire Foam Cutter and make an N9M. (only two motors) but using the same plans. I had plenty of power. Actually it was way more power than necessary.

    While I had the CG just a bit nose heavy per the location on the drawings the bird was tail heavy which is why the constant climb which I tried to counter with down trim. If I would have succeeded in getting trimed without the crash It would have needed two or three ounces of lead in the nose for good flights.

    Next one will be lighter and I will place the CG at least 1/2 inch forward of the indicated CG on the plans.

    Cheers, JR

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  11. #48
    C-Bag's Avatar
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    Yup, he was the kinda guy if it was a motorcycle, I would said no thanks. Somehow I just was not even expecting what he did and I thought I kept my face still. But I'm not a poker player so he probably got his money worth. I kept expecting to hear one of those two drunken bozos would blow off a wing strut or something, but they never did take themselves out of the gene pool while I was around.

    Man, that's a heart breaker JR! I don't blame you going the foam route for #2. I've been burned more than once on screwy CG on plans. Sounds like it was way off. But talk about a take off! No joke you had way more power than needed. That thing looked like it could have gone vertical and never slowed down. Did it just go into a flat spin? In a certain way I'm glad you didn't do a movie of the auger. I would have HAD to watch. Kinda like a train wreck.

    The receiver, batteries and motors ok?

    Better luck next time.

  12. #49
    Frank S's Avatar
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    ouch! augured on first flight,sorry to hear that. Great takeoff though
    Never try to tell me it can't be done
    When I have to paint I use http://kbs.justoldtrucks.com/

  13. #50
    PJs
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    Man JR, So sorry to hear that it augured in hard on the first flight, but wow that thing had some skadidlehop on take off when you put the power to it. Thanks for sharing the take off with us anyway, it was spectacular in it's own right. Hopefully you are able to salvage the power plant and controls for round 2.
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
    Mark Twain

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