Ack! No more HFT bead rollers?

A month or so I was in the local HFT and during check out I noticed a table with I presumed some return tools on it and there was a bead roller for $79. I was intrigued but it was not on the TAS list so passed. Then with all the discussion about motorizing bead rollers I bumped into some Utoob's on mod's and then several by Lazze and was hooked. I didn't know how truly handy the machine could be and how it could apply to some projects I've been contemplating.

I already knew the bead roller was hard to find on the HFT site as it wasn't called a bead roller. I took several runs at it and never could bumble on to it. So I needed to go down there anyway and back in the ever shrinking metal working section couldn't find it. When I asked, they said they don't carry it anymore. Just my luck.

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Originally Posted by C-Bag

I already knew the bead roller was hard to find on the HFT site as it wasn't called a bead roller. I took several runs at it and never could bumble on to it. So I needed to go down there anyway and back in the ever shrinking metal working section couldn't find it. When I asked, they said they don't carry it anymore. Just my luck.

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No explanation about the slow death in metal working equipment - hand tools don't seem so affected yet, I don't go often, and I never inventory the place, lol.
Remember, HFT is hard to tell whether individual items are their manufacture or import; despite the advertised comments. I'll bet 100 companies sell the identical product. I bought a bender called UB70 from a company in Georgia [?] called Kaka, unlike the bender sold by everyone else. There is Williams LowBuck, Eastwood and those on Hamizone or Heedbey. A little looking will render a same price and free shipping in range of picking up at HFT.

Well nobody anywhere is $79, but I get what you are saying because I've already done the searches. There's one on Amazon for $139 w/free shipping. The only low review was someone who was mad that it wasn't the US made one in the picture. But it sounds like it might be a little heavier than the HFT, so more usable. But after the Lazze vids I want one like his which looks like it's made out 2x4 .188 wall tubing. It also has the upper shaft adjustable in and out 1 1/2" which Lazze demonstrates how by adjusting the different mandrels you can get great effects.

I think the tubing, 1" shafts, bearing blocks and hardware are all doable. The stumbling block for me is the two spur gears. It would be a fun project and it might end up being cheaper to buy the $139 model and do the mod's to make the upper shaft moveable. The one mod the Lazze doesn't have which would be really handy is the quick release on the upper roll adjuster instead of re counting turns all the time.

[QUOTE=C-Bag;95469] . . . The stumbling block for me is the two spur gears. QUOTE]

A couple of circle car Quick Change spur gears will work. They are cheap and available from Sumitt, Jegs, Speedway, etc. The only hang up is they are internally 10 splined. But a keyway and some ingenuity should do the trick. You could even have different ratios (i.e., speeds for different jobs) if so inclined. :-)

Thanks Saltfever, but my understanding is it's a bit more complicated. In that in order to have the correct spacing of I think 2" between the shafts I'd like to get the same gears as they use on the plate type/HFT beaders. I'm trying to keep things somewhat standard so I don't have to do more work on the other end. Like making up for the odd diameters of the dies. Do you kinda get where I'm coming from here? I was hoping someone could either tell me what size/pitch the gears were in their beader and I could try and find a source. Ultimately I'll bet trying to make a one off I can't buy the parts for what these heavily subsidized Chinese tools are sold for. But it's a good mental exercise and might ultimately ease the sting of not buying that HFT I saw and just bite the bullet and buy the Amazon beader.

Good point. I think the QC sets are based on a 3" center distance. I was thinking since the HF bead rollers are usually beefed up or modified an additional mod wouldn't make a difference.

I appreciate that you didn't think I was just dismissing your input. My background in being a mechanic didn't really prepare me for some of the finer points of building geared components from scratch.

I know Marv has talked about the finer points of gears but I know from past experience if I don't have a direct hands on application of the theory it will not stick to my Teflon brain. So I didn't delve into it. I do a lot better at modding an existing machine or components. I was just looking through some of the Amazon and eBay gears and it was clear I didn't understand all the parameters. But as I was writing this I remembered a little program I picked up somewhere called Gearotic 2.0. So I quickly laid out two spur gears the same size and it's pretty quick and easy to just punch in how many teeth on the gears and see what the center distance is. And a 10 tooth gear would get me 1.968" center distance. Wonder why I didn't think of it before?

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Originally Posted by C-Bag

I appreciate that you didn't think I was just dismissing your input. My background in being a mechanic didn't really prepare me for some of the finer points of building geared components from scratch.

I know Marv has talked about the finer points of gears but I know from past experience if I don't have a direct hands on application of the theory it will not stick to my Teflon brain. So I didn't delve into it. I do a lot better at modding an existing machine or components. I was just looking through some of the Amazon and eBay gears and it was clear I didn't understand all the parameters. But as I was writing this I remembered a little program I picked up somewhere called Gearotic 2.0. So I quickly laid out two spur gears the same size and it's pretty quick and easy to just punch in how many teeth on the gears and see what the center distance is. And a 10 tooth gear would get me 1.968" center distance. Wonder why I didn't think of it before?

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Many, many manufacturers of stock OTC gears, and general drive components. There isn't anything about a roller you can't duplicate...A pair of gears, some angle iron, plasma cut and MIG or arc it up, two shafts, bronze bushings or pillow blocks, a couple split clamps...A square wrench and handle ala kitchen grinder. A lathe for male/ female rolls.
I'd think the cost would exceed HFT, but even 30-40% with first rate components is good rate of investment. The only 'precision' is the center to center of the gears. +.005 or 6/- .000 whose going to care? The Mesh Squad? Gear Cops? Federal Bearing Inspectors? Concentric Initiative Alliance?
One is Martin, same mfgr as all the spanner and thin open end wrenches
Gear Manufacturing - Spur Gears, Rack Gears, Miter Gears, Worm Gears
another will be Browning
Gearing | Browning | Morse

Head out to a wrecking yard look lying around on the ground where they were breaking engines and you'll more than likely find a pile of timing gears Just pick up 2 that look to have the same number of teeth make your shafts accordingly to match the bore and the key way Need heavier duty get 4 matching gears and just double up by putting 2 together on the shafts the rest is purely academic mounting plate bearings bushings dies Like Toolmaker 51 said all parts are readily build-able
No need to get hung up on the 2" center distance of someone's ready made tool any center distance will work just fine as long as the rollers AKA dies match pretty close to the center distance of which ever gears you wind up with

It's details like this that always make me feel like I'm just putting my shortcomings on display. Yeah, there are a TON of gear manufactures but each gear has a ton of spec's that I was not familiar with. But I also know from past experience the limititaions of the local supply pool. Where i used to work I could take home buckets full of up to 3" shaft cut offs all day to make rollers with. Not so here. No heavy manufacturing, few metal suppliers and welding shops/machine shops. One wrecking yard that seems more like a drug front as it's always closed and you can only get in by appointment and only for a specific part. No browsing like when I used to work in a wrecking yard. Also found that the most common large shaft size around was 2 1/8". This is approx what most of the beader manufacturers rollers are so if push comes to shove I think I can buy blanks and machine to need.

By far the best prices was on eBay. So to narrow down tidal wave I decided I needed gears that would take a 1" shaft. This only brought up 1,000 hits. So through the process of elimination and putting the specific gear/spec into the program Gerotic 2, I found that the gears that would give me a 2" center and was the most common and cheapest was a S1224. 12 diametral pitch, 24 tooth. Found them for $18ea. W/free shipping. Compared with in a regular distributor at over $60ea. and who knows how much for shipping. Not bad. First pieces in the puzzle.

The big catalog as Martin Sprocket and gear co. calls it is a valuable tool to have for anyone it is chock full of as you might imagine, gears, sprockets, V belt drive systems, timing belt drive systems, conveyor systems, bearings,just about anything associated with that aspect of industry. But probably the most valuable parts are the engineering data sections with the tables of specs, ratio combinations, design Horsepower graphs, and more.
My first one was the 1090 a hard back book about 1 1/4" thick my 2nd was the 2000 a little thicker then the 3000 also about the same as the 2000 they are big as the company describes them at 8 1/2 by 11 1/4" well bound hard back books. I also have the PDF version in my computer not quite as handy for me as the hard copy but that is mostly because I am more brick and mortar than digital you can download the PDF from the following page for free
Custom Products Catalog - Martin Sprocket & Gear
you only need to download the one PDF that says the big catalog (full) to have everything but *******WARNING - Due to the size of this file it will take time to download******* Their words not mine I just downloaded the newest version it took less than a minute on my internet speed