Printable View
Ashalim Plot B solar power station in Israel. 50,600 computer-controlled heliostats focus sunlight to the 260-meter (853 ft) solar tower to produce 121 megawatts.
https://diqn32j8nouaz.cloudfront.net...t_fullsize.jpg
Previously:
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...254#post184901
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...550#post185788
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...115#post157489
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...764#post111513
So I am guessing that in operation it might not be a great idea to climb to high up on the stairs.
I remember reading of a smaller installation in France that could be used to burn up toxic industrial waste. The temperatures were so high that the large molecules would breakup and leave you with relatively harmless residue.
I saw the parabolic collector installation immediately east of Barstow, CA on I 10 a few decades ago, a collection of parabolic mirrors set as a parabola. The beam of light was off center from the focus. I was told it was too hot for the instrument to bear.
That's interesting. I wonder if they overprovision the reflective capacity so they can maintain full plant output on cloudy days. Like full focus on cloudy days, and de-focus on sunny days. Interesting to think about. It's probably an indicator that the mirrors are a small cost relative to the rest of the power station.Quote:
Originally Posted by neilbourjaily
This is neat. I think you can see the defocusing right on the Wikipedia page for the Ashalim Plot B solar power station. But that also might be some sort of optical illusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashalim_Power_Station
Notice on the article in Wikipedia that they do a cost per kilowatt hour. From $0.76 a kilowatt hour. Not competitive at all in 2008. To $0.03 a kilowatt hour in 2021 new construction. At that cost you can make money. 4 hours storage. You loose morning peak but can do evening peak. Things like this have to be coupled with storage. I was reading on compressed CO2 "battery" a while back and it is being made in Spain for storage purposes for a large solar voltaic array. Like anything large and expensive. When you get the better engineers involved and there's more off the shelf parts the prices go down. Same goes for the construction crews. One of a kind is always expensive. Once there are multiples the problems get worked out. Drawings are nothing until they are made in real life. And then the real engineering takes place.
The issue with any kind of mechanical storage device is its capacity is measured in watts not megawatts. It will take the chemists and physicists working together to develop high density storage devices, making and breaking bonds. Unfortunately, even with our chemical devices we are still stuck in incremental improvements. We need orders of magnitude. Even one order of magnitude would be earth shattering.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storageQuote:
Originally Posted by neilbourjaily
There are many existing high storage systems. I hadn't read up on this for a while.
There are some massive energy storage systems in Europe. Nothing stopping this from being done here. Just a change in thinking. The underlying problem is always the capitalist ideas of who's going to pay me? Nothing wrong with money. But what can be wrong is placing money ahead of the good for all people. In a 150 years that money concept has caused quite a serious set of problems. One that will cost more money in damages than was gleaned in the processes that caused it. Never mind loss of lives and lively hoods.
Remember among the first cars were battery electric cars. The companies were purchased, and closed down. No money to be made from them.
As in most fields of learning. Engineers are very slow to be willing to try new things. The ones that really know what they are doing are the ones that try the new ideas. Finance is the same way. Proven, must be proven.
Follow the links in the article and you will find solar stations that have 13 hours of storage capacity and have produced power continuously for 30 day periods. That is nothing to sneeze at.
So are the amortized costs per kilowatt. The one in Dubai carefully mentioning hoe the cost per kilowatt is unsubsidized.
That is a lower cost per kilowatt than a coal or gas station. The difference being is the power production density.
Yes you need a gigawatt for roughly a million people depending on A/C usage. And yes there are morning and evening residential peaks. Industry is more steady state. And it is the largest user by a wide margin.
We'll never see another new concentrated solar-thermal plant. They made sense 15 years ago, but the price has come down on photovoltaics so much that it just doesn't make sense anymore. I think PV is at like 3x to 4x cheaper per installed watt now, and watts per unit area is much higher on PV as well. And much less maintenance on solar PV. I think they're incredibly cool, but they're a bit of a dinosaur at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko
Yep. But they do provide an interesting option for waste disposal. Total disassociation of complex toxic molecules. But again an incinerator is a cheaper alternative. But not nearly as effective due to the thermal limits of gas burners. The concentrated solar has the opposite problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by nova_robotics
But easier to bury it right?