But wait, more of.....never mind, you know the drill; box truck, saga, yaddy-yah

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

Shapers are high echelon in the Rodney Dangerfield division of machinery; not getting any respect. Same with hand millers, die files, profilers, tracers, gang drills..... Maybe not for industry, not my goal. If it was good at something, probably still is, and earns space; without being $400 a month in payments.

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Yes and at the hands of an unskilled operator they can be associated with another category.
We had sold a new 32" Asian clone of a Smith& miller. An extremely robust beautifully crafted machine had a shipping weight of close to 4 tons, that's metric tons by the way. Loaded it on a truck and I followed the truck in my POV to Basra Iraq. I spent nearly 2 full weeks after installing it trying to train a couple of guys on at least the basics of how to operate the behemoth. Mostly on what NOT to do when operating it, all of the must lubrication points tool grinding and honing procedures for the intended parts run they were going to make at the time. Knowing full well you cannot teach a monkey any table manors on how to eat a banana. Prior to the install of the machine these guys had been making the parts with a hammer, chisel and a file. Satisfied they had or I hoped they had absorbed a modicum of the basics I fell in with the next convoy back to Kuwait. It was not 2 months later when we get the call that the machine was broken, NO! It was not broken it had been utterly destroyed. How do you destroy a 4 ton machine cutting aluminum parts youi might ask? By setting all of the feeds to max the stroke to max, leaving the table unlocked and in power raise mode also at max speed, switch it on then go to prayers. When all of these are done the table is broken off the carriage the clapper and tool holder looks like it had been the victim of a forging press. the bull gear is broken in several pieces with most of the teeth sheared off the crank arm is folded like a horseshoe the bearing cases are exploded shafts are bent and twisted even the massive slide arm is cracked. We sold them a round column table mill to replace it

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Yes and at the hands of an unskilled operator they can be associated with another category.
We had sold a new 32" Asian clone of a Smith& miller. An extremely robust beautifully crafted machine had a shipping weight of close to 4 tons, that's metric tons by the way.
<<<<snip>>>
We sold them a round column table mill to replace it

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I bet they were thrilled, and never saw the irony.

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

I bet they were thrilled, and never saw the irony.

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No and the best thing was I was able to send one of my machinist to Basra in my stead to deliver the little 200 kg table mill, think of an Enco 5-inch round column mill similar to the one in my machine shop trailer. It was capable of doing everything they needed at the time, 4 times faster than the shaper, once my guy made the fixtures to hold their parts, for them. I mean what's up with that, you want to produce a product and you can't even figure out how to make your own fixtures.

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Originally Posted by Frank S

No and the best thing was I was able to send one of my machinist to Basra in my stead to deliver the little 200 kg table mill, think of an Enco 5-inch round column mill similar to the one in my machine shop trailer. It was capable of doing everything they needed at the time, 4 times faster than the shaper, once my guy made the fixtures to hold their parts, for them. I mean what's up with that, you want to produce a product and you can't even figure out how to make your own fixtures.

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Hey; we watch 'How It's Made'. Every episode!

Funny, Mark (mwmkravchenko) and I just had a similar revelation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Yes and at the hands of an unskilled operator they can be associated with another category.
We had sold a new 32" Asian clone of a Smith& miller. An extremely robust beautifully crafted machine had a shipping weight of close to 4 tons, that's metric tons by the way. Loaded it on a truck and I followed the truck in my POV to Basra Iraq. I spent nearly 2 full weeks after installing it trying to train a couple of guys on at least the basics of how to operate the behemoth. Mostly on what NOT to do when operating it, all of the must lubrication points tool grinding and honing procedures for the intended parts run they were going to make at the time. Knowing full well you cannot teach a monkey any table manors on how to eat a banana. Prior to the install of the machine these guys had been making the parts with a hammer, chisel and a file. Satisfied they had or I hoped they had absorbed a modicum of the basics I fell in with the next convoy back to Kuwait. It was not 2 months later when we get the call that the machine was broken, NO! It was not broken it had been utterly destroyed. How do you destroy a 4 ton machine cutting aluminum parts youi might ask? By setting all of the feeds to max the stroke to max, leaving the table unlocked and in power raise mode also at max speed, switch it on then go to prayers. When all of these are done the table is broken off the carriage the clapper and tool holder looks like it had been the victim of a forging press. the bull gear is broken in several pieces with most of the teeth sheared off the crank arm is folded like a horseshoe the bearing cases are exploded shafts are bent and twisted even the massive slide arm is cracked. We sold them a round column table mill to replace it

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In'sh Allah! "God Willing!" Among other things, It's why USAF Instructor Pilots hate teaching most Middle Easterners to fly. Have a problem in-flight? They'll take their hands off the controls and wait for God to save them, or not, as He wills. It's also used like the Mexican Spanish phrase "Mañana" or "Tomorrow" but without the sense of urgency.