DIY CNC Router from old printer/scanner parts

Hello,

Has anyway tackled this kind of project? I have a few old inject printers, a couple with built in scanners, and a huge HP laserjet printer that I can plunder for parts. My question is, is it possible to be a PC/Laptop driven CNC router entirely from salvaged parts, without having to buy an Arduino board, or other board. Surely the existing devices have everything I need?

I've seen plenty of projects that always end up saying I have to buy something, which I'd like to avoid if possible.

I have a Dremel style tool already, so don't need to buy anything like that.

Thanks,
David.

Hi David,

I've been casting about for info on using printers for the motors and linear bearings too. I'm not trying to do cnc like you, more a machine to automatically cut 1/4" tubing that comes in 50' rolls into 1 1/4" long pieces. it would be interesting to know if something like Excel or some other typical software could be utilized for what either of us is exploring.

I've got no problem with Arduino because they are so cheap. For me it's been about trying to get the time to go through the process of learning how to use it and finding some kind of primer on utilizing printer guts to make cool stuff. It's astounding what in your typical printer that gets sent to the scrap heap by the ton.

Hi David, Great question. I think it is doable but the problem to me would be accessing the firmware from the different printers and some interface to that from your PC. Most are USB any more but have an Ethernet connection which would be my preferred choice. Personally I would probably go the Arduino route because of all of the available interfaces and I/O for limit switches and such. You will still need to figure out the motor/stepper/servo wiring to that interface though. A lot of printers use flexible circuit board interfaces which you may or may not be able to connect to. They also use an encoded flexible strip for the positioning of the head...not sure if that could be used but it would be tied in with the firmware if you could decode it and give you some decent resolution.

I assume you are wanting to build a 3 axis system?? It seems doable to use the rails, bearings, motors and some of the hardware for mounting it all into some form of 3 axis configuration. Most printers use toothed belts/pulley so that would have to be looked at to see if the originals could be used in your configuration.

Got my wheels spinning but it's a bit daunting unless you can find someone else's build to get more answers from. Might try the CNC forums.

Thanks for the great question to get the noodle going. :hattip: ~PJ

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Originally Posted by C-Bag

I've been casting about for info on using printers for the motors and linear bearings too. I'm not trying to do cnc like you, more a machine to automatically cut 1/4" tubing that comes in 50' rolls into 1 1/4" long pieces. it would be interesting to know if something like Excel or some other typical software could be utilized for what either of us is exploring.

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What kind of tubing C-Bag? Not sure about using Excel, doubt it. Think you could use a cheapy micro PLC though. They have a fair amount of I/O and easy to program...more of a stand alone for automation. Do a search for Micro PLC...A ton out there now, cheap and cheerful. I've used Automation Direct quite a bit back in the day, kind of a one stop shop for automation.

Till Then, ~PJ

Shoulda known you have the goods Wiz! Even though I worked around PLC's in my packing house days I was not a tech, just a mech/fabricator. So you don't think a Arduino could control some printer guts? IIRC there's a guy on U2oob that used an Arduino to do some simple etching with a hacked printer.

The hose I use is 1/4" 1/8" wall Tygon 3350 platinum cured lab grade silicon hose. Very soft and pliable, easy to cut and very expensive. I cut at present 3,000+ pieces a year and it's getting old.

What I envision is using the motors and linear guides pull the hose off the reel. I have totally cool little Sprague clutch bearings I got at a wacky yards sale where this guy was making powered skate boards and I picked up a bunch, new and used. So the idea was to use them on the feed arm to keep the hose trapped and feeding only one way. Ever since I discovered Sprauge clutches in automatic transmissions I've been amazed they aren't used more like in socket ratchets. I had a little ratchet screwdriver that used a Sprague clutch and it was amazing for tight spaces because there no slop like in a regular ratchet. I think they would be perfect for making a one way feed mechanism. But I'm a mechanical guy not an electronics Wiz :bow:

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So you don't think a Arduino could control some printer guts? IIRC there's a guy on U2oob that used an Arduino to do some simple etching with a hacked printer.

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As I said above it could be done but would be an arduos task and a lot of trial and error. You could control the motors once you figured out what type and the wiring for them...I think most are steppers but may be wrong. Trying to interface with the printer firmware though, wouldn't be pretty IMHO. A lot of the hardware may be applicable to your project as well.

Arduino's are the new sliced bread for makers and there is a ton of code available for free for all kinds of operations. I have one and some add-on's but found the programming a pain as I always do with coding. I'll never profess to being a code jockey but have written some in various languages including assembly...all the way back to the Motorola 6802. The new Atmega and Pic chips are a whole lot friendlier and more powerful mainly because of the insurgence of Stamp to Arduino, the modular interfaces and programming...and skyrocketing use by makers. So yes it can be done, but like you said...a steep learning curve if you haven't done it before. There are some good Arduino books on Amazon...I have couple but there will be some headbanging.

I would assume your tubing is 3350 from Cole Parmer or similar. What kind of spool does it come on? Paper, metal and what kind of hub does it have? Approximate diameter? Pictures? How critical is the length (1.25" ± ???), curf will fit into picture.

Sprauge clutches are the bomb for sure but I was thinking of a simpler design that would spin the spool into a guide to the cutter. You could also control your feed to a stop, clamp and cut, then drop. Have to think about it some more and need MO Details to give an over all ear ball. How are you cutting it now? Knife, blade?? You know me, I tend toward the simple and only the complex if necessary. All of it could be controlled by one of those simple Micro PLC's I'm pretty sure, the programming is simple/easy as well. Probably a simple loop through the I/O for the controls, rinse, repeat, stop...with a branch or two for safety and If's this then that's. You might need some interface to drive a stepper or servo if that was the route to take...the rest could be simple mechanical with solenoids or maybe pneumatic if necessary. I would start with a flow chart of what needs to happen when and next then finish. That will give you an idea of what I/O you need and how to take each new step to the end.

Food for thought. Cool project though!!

Till Then, ~PJ

Maybe I am looking at this from left field or am not understanding something.
but when you mentioned coils of tubing rolled out and cut to a set length it started me to thinking along the lines of a mig welder wire feed style with smooth rollers having a radius grove to match the tubing. the tubing would be fed through a sleeve the rollers would feed it through an output sleeve with a slot in it that would allow a meat cutter type circular blade to slice off the tubing the length would be set by a micro-switch stop that controlled every thing when the tube hit the switch the switch would stop the feed and start the saw blade which would slice off the part and retract a second micro switch would activate the dormeyer solenoid to lift the saw out of the way start the feed and trigger another dormeyer solenoid to retract the length stop switch plate just for an instant which would fall back in place as the cut piece of tubing advanced and fell away starting the process all over again
Again I am probably looking at this from under the pyramid and don't see the scope of things

Thanks PJs and FrankS. I guess I should change my avatar and name to HarryHyjack with a pirate or something :)

I like the IDEA of a flow chart but that's way more organized than I've ever been for any project. But your very pertinent questions Wiz got me paying more attention to the details of the Tygon first. I realized I was thinking of my old 7/64" vacuum rubber hose I quit using almost 5yrs ago that comes on a plastic reel. The Tygon just comes coiled up in a plastic bag and not in any particular fashion. It is very smooth and non porous so it makes it sticky to itself even though no glue or anything will stick to it. Do you know what I mean? So it does not come out of the roll easy so I'd probably have to take it and carefully roll it onto a reel. But even then it clings to itself somewhat like two pieces of glass.

Presently I use the top of the old plastic rubber hose reel cut specifically to make a gauge block 1.25" ( how'd you know Wiz? spooky) and little needle nose Fiskars sewing scissors to cut the hose with. Anything bigger no matter the quality just seems to mangle it. These little ones go through the hose clean and quick. I don't think a guillotine type of setup would work for whatever reason. I have no clue why thiese specific scissors work. I also use Fiskars rotary cutters for cutting leather and it goes through 1/8" chap hide like butter but I'll have to see if it goes through the Tygon. My feeling is it needs two slicing cutters and that's why those little scissors work.

I appreciate both your feedback because it's got me out of being stuck on using a printer and an Arduino. If I could do it more mechanically I would. I have some air motors that I got out of a local ReStore, but they are pretty big and way powerful. Good thing is they have adjustable stroke and return springs. They are not your usual Bimba air cylinders, when I found them in a catalog somewhere they called them air motors.

As far as hose roller guides Frank, the local hardware store sells sliding glass door rollers and they are made for running on a 1/4" half round track. So that would be perfect for this hose, and they are cheap.

I'm just not an electrician like you Wiz or Frank. So I'm not familiar with dormeyer solenoids and making control circuits. I have done smiple stuff for wiring in air solenoids, but they didn't have a micro switches or anything fancy, just intermittent switches to actuate. But if I understand your pyramid Frank, some kind of simple sequence that the final contact of the hose on the switch to trigger the cutter and the whole thing starts over would be my idea of elegant.

Thanks for the bump out of my stagnation guys. And sorry for the hyjack OP.

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when you mentioned coils of tubing rolled out and cut to a set length it started me to thinking along the lines of a mig welder wire feed style with smooth rollers

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Actually Frank I was thinking along the same lines and fairly simple with solenoids and micro switches driven by I/O and a simple loop routine. My brother picked up a miss feeding feeder for way cheap for his big unit a while back, but I haven't been able to get up there and look at it with him but it occurred to me when writing above. By funneling the tygon into another tube of brass or seamless tubing, the tygon would move pretty easily I think as the tygon is plenty smooth. Using his Sprauge clutches might work if they could surround and grip the tubing...but still thinking it may be simple enough to drive the spool because the tygon might be stiff enough to feed, based od/wall and only needs to increment a bit a time?

I like your idea of the meat cutter blade. I had been thinking about a need to clamp the tubing a bit with a V-block or split U channel with a solenoid or small Bimba cylinder, as it will tend to curl a bit during and after cutting causing a jam Don't know enough about what the need for cut quality and cut length tolerances but it may take some kind of reciprocating or circular cutting tool to get a clean cut and last through a run. Your tube with slot would keep it all straight and could probably push out one or to pieces to and output hopper of some kind...as long as it doesn't curl and hang up as it pushes forward...Nice thought, simple and doable IMHO. Maybe a Dremel hinge mounted with a fine saw blade using your solenoid drive??

Thanks for chiming in here Frank, all great thoughts! Not sure either of us is out from under the pyramid....C-Bag, balls in your court. Scope and some details Please. ~PJ

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Originally Posted by C-Bag

Hi David,

I've been casting about for info on using printers for the motors and linear bearings too. I'm not trying to do cnc like you, more a machine to automatically cut 1/4" tubing that comes in 50' rolls into 1 1/4" long pieces. it would be interesting to know if something like Excel or some other typical software could be utilized for what either of us is exploring.

I've got no problem with Arduino because they are so cheap. For me it's been about trying to get the time to go through the process of learning how to use it and finding some kind of primer on utilizing printer guts to make cool stuff. It's astounding what in your typical printer that gets sent to the scrap heap by the ton.

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some where around home, I have a small program written for me when I was investigating printing rolled label stock on a pad printer and using a dot matrix printer to pull the label stock through. The length of pull could be changed to suit the stock. The problem that I have is that it is on a 3 1/2 floppy and I no longer have a floppy drive, but it is here some where if it helps.

les

Thanks for the offer kiwiles, I'll keep it in mind. Don't know how I would get around the floppy disc but at this point I'm hoping to dump the whole idea of trying to use printer parts. I think the super proprietary nature of them makes it tough to hack for a non hacker like myself. That's probably why I've found so few tutorials on how to repurpose them on the net. That really sux on the part of the manufacturers they made them so proprietary but I guess that's the nature of the corporate beast.

You didn't say the size you were wanting to pull, though it must be small. Perhaps the best way would be a couple of small air rams one to pull one to clamp. With so many different options in rams these days, it would be a good path to follow - no computer required, simple mechanical automation.
Depending on your cutting arrangement, a rifle cartridge trimmer might be used for clean up and final length trim

les

Yup, buried in all that rambling I mentioned it's 1/4"dia 1/8" wall silicon hose. And the pieces need to be 1.25" long.

So the stuff is soft but oddly sticky but not like in a goopy way, but in so soft and clean it clings to stuff. You know how silicon caulk is? So feeding through a tube is not going to work. Like all silicon it's weird to cut. Like it resists being cut fast but cutting slow is no problem if it's done right.

Attachment 10850

So here is a grouping for y'all of the hose, the little scissors I use that work so well and on of the 7 or 8 air motors I have. I didn't get a pic of the sliding glass door rollers that I think would be the bomb for guiding the hose, next time.

Thanks for the pic C-Bag. The sticky is a bit of a problem and now understand better the parameters. I have that same pair of scissor (nice) but just picked up a pair of similar Fiscars with my SO a few weeks ago for her wool work, but they are titanium...I warned her they might end up being MIA. ;) They leave no thread uncut and square as my head...Super Nice but pricey.

Have you tried pulling a single edge razor blade through the tubing for cutting? The other thing that came to mind for cutting if it is that persnickety is a pair of "Guppy" style tubing cutters. Either scissors or a pull blade could be anchored and connected to solenoids or a pneumatic of some type.

The thing with pneumatic motion is the peripheral costs on a cheap and cheerful budget. I found this 2" linear slide on Ebay for a decent price but you will need pneumatic solenoids, fitting, and such to build up your system. They might be available on Ebay or CL but haven't looked. Don't know if your "Air Motors" would work...have you tried them? Are they linear motion or rotational?

Like your screen door roller idea but think it could only be used for a guide system...not sure the sticky will give you enough traction to drive it. They could be made of Delrin or similar on the lathe and scored to give some traction??

Ultimately IMHO it would be better to buy it on a roll for an automated machine...pricey I know, I looked but may be a bit cheaper/ft in bulk. That package looks to be 25' or 50'?? From your numbers it looks like you go through about 312' for your 3k/per year. If you did 3, 100' rolls say, 1k at a time you could manage the outlay over the year. The other thought is; Can your supplier cut it to length for you and send you bags of cut lengths? A lot of them do that for a price and are likely set up to cut it already...as long as they can maintain the QA for you. Maybe look into it for an ROI comparison to a machine build. The cost of a machine is too difficult to assess at this point especially on a Cheep and Cheerful budget and some good scrounging/re-purposing...but I love the challenge of it!

Thoughts for now...~PJ

As usual your observations are spot on Wiz. I looked into having the hose cut and it's almost impossible to nail down because nobody does it with this hose because it's lab grade and triple sanitary packed. Add to that its not offered on a reel and the only place I can get a decent break on the price is through a non medical vendor so it's still most cost effective to cut it by hand by demand. It's not like it's hard or that time consuming. I've made all my other jigs, fixtures and even machinery so every once in a while I contemplate adding an auto hose cutter to the lineup. I think it's more ADD behavior than a brick wall need :)

I got inspired by looking through this guys blog:Michael McKGyver McKinley / FrontPage

Manufacturing anything is a exercise in rapid response flexibility. Suppliers are constantly being bought out or put out of biz or certain things are discontinued and it always seems to be the very item that seems to fit my application. Without the net and places like this where I'm constantly finding out about stuff that is useful to my processes I'd have to give up and price myself out of exsistance. Like this hose, it's 8x's more expensive than the old hose I used to use. But when I updated my design I use about 1/6the amount of hose I used to use. So I'm actually cutting less hose than I used to. Bottom line is I'm grateful to even be in the position of having the time, $$, and support to contemplate an auto hose cutter.

The air motors are outrageously strong. It's a 3" piston with linear motion, not rotary, with a heavy duty return spring and built in stroke stops. I'd never bumped into these until I found them and two plastic milk crates at a ReStore of all places. They had no idea what they were and it was 8x "motors", a board with three foot pedal air valves and a bunch of custom brass plumbing, quick couplers and switch valves. Said some woman came in and asked if they took donations and dropped the whole thing off. All looked unused and got the whole lot for $100. So all it would take is a simple two way valve because of the return spring to actuate. :cool:

I tried my big Olfa rotary cutter on the hose and went through it like a hot knife through butter. That cutter is astoundly sharp. For cutting anything where you want long straight super clean runs they are absolutely to way to go. So that's definitely to way to auto cut the hose. I also scored some used 1" stroke guided air Rams off eBay last year in the deal of the century. They were obviously scavenged off a box making machine as I'd seen them used for holding boxes in place for assembly. Guy was selling them for $46 for 4 of them +$10 shipping! They were US made the list for $260ea.! So I have a couple of spares for the project.

I also started looking over PLC on eBay......of course I have NO idea what I'm looking at or what I need. But you are right, they are cheap! I saw a used small one for $40. You really think they are easier to program than an Arduino?

been thinking about your problem. I think perhaps you might be over engineering in your thoughts. Ist off, how much of this stuff do you need to cut, if its an ongoing contract then yes, think a little harder, but start off simple.
example, grab a block of UHMO, bore a hole through it,so that the fit of the tube is firm, but not tight (slides with little effort). It's a naturally slippery product so should slide easily, if not , add a lubricant, something like water could work. next make a simple guillotine on the exit. this could be a knife cutting blade from a stanley, (think thin, less drag) but the blade must run hard against the exit hole of the UHMF. and have plenty of blade exposed on the outside of the cut. By doing this, the tube is supported all way round so there should not be any distortion of the cut, leaving it square. to make it easier to work, screw it down onto some thick ply as a base.
when that is sorted, add a stop of the required length, push through a length and slice. If the length has a hang up, add a small bar above the height of the cut on the outside of the blade, but above the tube. cyno should deal with that, do another cut. the bar added onto the blade should knock it down after the cut, and leave it open for the next length to come through.
so we now have a simple machine to do the job.
From there, break down the requirements to automate it, I would start at the feed side, small actuators are around and cheap, New PhD Pneumatic Linear Actuator MS04 2x2 | eBay
as an example. find one that can be adjusted in length of pull, and another than can be used as a clamp, they don't to be very big obviously, so there you go. mount a half block on the top for the tube to lie in, and another half block on the clamp. You may have to muck around with materials, but not impossible.
tackle the cutting end the same way. Manifolds can be sorted out to make things like this fully auto

start of small, use the kiss method and you will get it.


les