Driving a Formula One at Monaco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q92NsPM4PAI thought that some of you might want to see just how advanced the simulator world has come for computers. I am seventy and a couple of years back a friend of mine introduced me to the PlayStation 3 simulator, GT-5 and GT-6. You start out like I did, not knowing how to race, and they take you through a tutorial of a racing school, and at the end, if you want, you can drive a formula car. Your wives might not like this either because this is addicting, oh, but so much fun, a real E ticket ride. You can be the judge, but to me this is the closest thing that I could experience to driving a formula car. I made what is called a ghetto rig, a car cockpit made of 2x4's and plywood. I mounted an 88 Corvette seat with 6 way seat adjustments with a G-27 steering wheel with paddle shifters, and I race on a 55 inch HD screen, and then off to the races. Here is a video of the race at Monaco, called in the game, Cote De Azure. Once your drive one of these, usually that is all you want to drive.

Very cool! I've been sort of peripherally aware of the improvements made in the racing simulator genre these last few years, but haven't invested in a current console. I love the idea of a dedicated seat and control position. Have you considered any sort of force feedback for the rig?

I've always been a formula car guy, myself, both as a fan and a driver. I think it's our aviation background attracting us to centerline seating and its lack of parallax, car-as-extension-of-self, etc. Plus, being able to see the front wheels contributes to better feel for slip angle, threshold braking, etc. It's addictive and highly recommended!

Ken

The steering wheel has force feedback and it is adjustable. As far as the seat, there are full motion rigs with simulated G forces, bumps, and side loads, but very expensive. I prefer to drive without getting tossed around, but I am sure there are some that would like it. You say you have driven a formula car, share your experiences, I would be interested. I can't imagine driving one. I went down to a local business that karts can be rented and I found that the G forces wore me out, boy a formula driver has to be in good shape to endure 50 to sixty laps. I just drive ten laps on my simulator, and I am wore out. Robert Brown.

My hands-on formula car seat time has all been in the Skip Barber race car. Not the fastest thing in the world, though running at 120+ MPH in an open car with your butt a few inches off the deck is an intense experience. As you say, there are Gs to contend with, though I've always enjoyed them. All that time spent pulling to the vertical at 4+ (in everything from Decathlons to Pitts to Extra to T-6 to my RV-8) rendered the lateral forces in the Skippy car absolutely gentle by comparison.

The car had a 5-speed sequential transmission which, naturally, made the the occasional missed shift of an H-pattern box a thing of the past. Great fun!!

Attached is a pic of yours truly ready to head out on track at Sebring a few years ago.

Ken

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Wow, I bet that was a thrill. Thank you very much for sharing. I think you would really like PS3 GT5 and GT6, hundreds of cars to drive and online racing also.

Those new console racing games sound neat; I'll definitely have to give them a look.

You can follow my current project here: Ken's New Toy I'm still hopeful that it'll be done sometime this fall. We shall see.

Ken

Oh man, what a car. That is fantastic.

Is the experience with the steering wheel similar to driving a car with newer games and a wheel?

In the driving games I have played in the past the controls are worlds apart from just a street car. It's like the game designers wanted the game experience to be like drunk driving. The car in the game just doesn't react right. The consoles I have played are considered dated now.

There's something about simulator technology that always seems to miss out on completely replicating the real thing. In the case of console racing sims, it may represent a deliberate choice on the part of the game designers as a means of tweaking the challenging/frustrating balance to increase engagement.

FWIW, the Level D sims I've flown have each been more pitch-sensitive than the airplanes. Given how they're otherwise intended to be as perfect a training environment as it's possible to produce, I've always suspected it was deliberate there, too. After all, if you can fly the sim, you'll have no trouble handling the jet.

Ken

Jere, the G-27 steering wheel very accurately simulates the real thing. There is no lag, also one can choose the ratio, quick for a racing car and slower for a street car. The sims like GT5 and GT6 very accurately simulate the steering experience. The G-27 costs about 250.00, you get the peddles and the gear shift. Logitech makes it. I bought mine on Ebay.

Kbalch, I have flown about all of the sims and yes the pitch control usually does not depict the real world, especially in Microsoft Flight sim. I feel that the way they write the program there is a certain amount of trying to predict what your moves might be and there seems to be an inherent lag, but in X-plane, I think they are up to X-plane 11 or 12, I don't know, doesn't seem to have that feeling with pitch. It seems to be more realistic. I don't think the pitch control is deliberately made to be sensitive, I feel it just the way they write the program, probably too lazy to get it right. I don't like Microsoft Flight sim for that reason, X-Plane would be my choice, much more accurate. Bob.

Hi Bob,

I've heard good things about X-Plane, though I haven't spent any time with desktop sims in ages (maybe 15 years?). I bet you're exactly right about lag and predictive algorithms.

Level D sims, though, are a whole 'nother thing. For those who've never heard the term, that's a class of jet (predominantly) sims approved for zero flight training (so you can get a type rating in the sim without ever touching the airplane) and generally used by the airlines and biz jet operators. Like this:

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Ken

Yes Ken, I've never heard of level D sims until you mentioned it. Now that I think about it, when one pitches say down in a sim, the 3D view model obviously will move up, so maybe it is very difficult to match the view with real world result, I don't know, but it must be difficult if even level D sims also do it. Maybe they should get rid of the predictability portion of the program and concentrate on just the input, maybe it would be more real world. I do get a better real world reaction with X-Plane. Bob.

That pitch effect is noticeable not just out the window, but also on the gauges. For all the visual resolution available, most sim training is, naturally, conducted IFR. The net effect is that it's twitchy to hand fly and challenging to trim out. Of course, most jet operations are autopilot-based from gear up on climbout to gear down at the marker (sometimes a bit sooner) on approach, so it's largely a button-twiddling exercise in real life. Easy-peasy. :D

Ken

I like X-Plane's real-time internet weather option. Most of my flight lessons were cancelled due to bad weather. In those cases, I could fly the same bad weather in the sim. Poorly, of course, but safely :)

I have been pouring over some more thoughts about the sensitive pitch reaction and realized after thinking about it, that there are quite a few reactions to a pitch input, like when pitching the nose down, the airspeed will increase and the aircraft would try to pitch back up because of the increased A/S and having to pitch the nose down even further, or reduce power. And there is trim, so you trim it, and the sim has to realize that, until stabilized, so I can see how difficult it would be to figure all of these inputs and produce a believable result. Just a thought. I can just hear the programmers talking about how many factors have to be considered to present an acceptable feel of the controls. Maybe some of them have never had a stick in their hand, who knows. Also, a program called FA-18 flight simulator (1996) emulates a carrier landing better than any sim that I have found. Bob.

Hey machiningfool, been playing with GT since it first came out. GT2 was what really made the game extremely popular, both to gamers and car nuts alike. The detail of setup options even then was very realistic, and the newer editions have brought graphics to an extremely realistic level. Sadly though, one still needs a real car to experience the sensual assault of hearing an engine shriek, tires slipping, your kidneys shaking, and your vision blurring. :) My favorite tracks in the game? Monaco and the Nurburgring.

I'd like to see your homemade rig, as I've been thinking of setting up one.

Here are some pictures of my ghetto rig, ugly, but it's just like driving a Ferrari. The three switches control the six-way switch for the 88 Corvette seat. You don't need that, because I haven't touched it since I adjusted it the first time. If you haven't experienced GT-5 and GT-6, you are missing out, they are great. Bob.Attachment 4284Attachment 4285Attachment 4286Attachment 4287

Thanks Bob! I believe you about the latest versions of GT. The demos I've seen on Sony showrooms are unreal! But, so many toys and not enough cash for a PS-4. :) I like your setup, especially that Corvette seat.

Please be aware that the GT-5 and GT-6 versions only work on PS-3 not PS-4. A PS-3 can be picked up for 125.00 if you search. You can also buy the wheel, the one that I recomend is a G-27, for as little as 175.00 used say on Craigslist or Ebay. The problem is the screen, I recomend at least a 46 inch screen, if you are old like me, I am 70. Bob.