H.R. 7468 “Stop Home Manufacture of Ghost Guns Act of 2020"

Apologize that my first post isn't of one of my projects. I am a home shop machinist, my equipment consists of a 16" LeBlond lathe and a Gorton O-16 mill, along with the usual belt sanders, grinders and welders.

Though presented as a gun control bill, poorly thought out and written, it has the potential to negatively impact our hobby. They mention 3D printers and bench top CNC mills in the proposal.

Even if you're not into guns, but have any of the machinery listed, this, if passed, could put you into a very difficult situation. Heaven forbid you are into making model cannons, black powder rifles or actual gunsmithing.

The bill, entered as H.R. 7468 and referred to the Democrat-controlled House Committee on the Judiciary, also has the fast support of Giffords.
“We must stop the proliferation of these easy to make, untraceable guns that can be obtained with no background check, “Adzi Vokhina, Giffords Federal Affairs Director, contends. “Clamping down on the milling machines that make it virtually effortless to create an arsenal of untraceable weapons from a basement or garage is a good place to start.”

A few month's back, Sacramento county in California was cracking down on home mechanics. It was mainly aimed at people working on cars for payment, but several of those caught up in it were hobbyists. The ordinance included a statement that tools not normally found in a home garage were prohibited. Several people were turned in by neighbors that were upset with them working on their cars. It went so far as to say you couldn't do it even in a closed garage. Lots of people were fined, had to get rid of projects, had to spend money and time to defend themselves.

This one is a Federal bill and will affect all states.

Think we need to keep an eye on this one.

Les T.

"The ordinance included a statement that tools not normally found in a home garage were prohibited"....

This isn't my garage. See? No room for a car, but that cot over there makes it my bedroom. Now get out!
Or, that sink, microwave and refrigerator makes it my kitchen.
Or, put a dog bed in one corner, and it's a dog house...

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Originally Posted by lest21

A few month's back, Sacramento county in California was cracking down on home mechanics.
It was mainly aimed at people working on cars for payment, but several of those caught up in it were hobbyists.

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Hi, Les - welcome onboard HMT, and thanks for your first post here!
Hope you'll find some interesting projects and useful methods & tips here, also perhaps share a few of your own?

-A link or two reporting on this home mechanics crackdown would be most helpful (and interesting to pursue further, at least to me),
as I've not yet found any info whatsoever on this, but then I might just've been unlucky in my searches so far?

Cheers and TIA

Johan

Johan,

Here's one link to an article on the Sacramento legislation.

https://jalopnik.com/sacramento-coun...own-1836085130

The problem is this is a county ordinance that includes all areas of the county including agricultural land. Just about every farm I know of has at least one tractor in the open being worked on. The big question is the vague "tools not normally found in a residence" statement. A county inspector can claim that the mig welder you have would put you in violation because it is a 'tool not normally found in a residence', how would a person dispute this.

And that is the problem with the Federal law, by including 3D printers, CNC machines, mills in their list opens a very big hole for the unwary to fall into.

Les T.

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Originally Posted by DIYSwede

Hi, Les - welcome onboard HMT, and thanks for your first post here!
Hope you'll find some interesting projects and useful methods & tips here, also perhaps share a few of your own?

-A link or two reporting on this home mechanics crackdown would be most helpful (and interesting to pursue further, at least to me),
as I've not yet found any info whatsoever on this, but then I might just've been unlucky in my searches so far?

Cheers and TIA

Johan

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"Uncommon tools". Seems easy challenge, uncommon where?
There are complete machine shops in Afghan caves. Cuba has a large per capita of talented auto mechanics keeping 60 year old cars on the roads. How many British basements & sheds house metal turning lathes? Or Germany with tiny "Boy" 15 ton injection molding machines, or scores of little job shops surrounding Eibar, Spain. Same thing in Italy.

All of us here have something, items that even machine shops don't have any longer. Looking forward to one of those pink-fingered liberats pointing at this or that, questioning my tap disentegrator, JigMil, gap shear, sheet metal brake...range of punch presses, band saws, fork lift, big rotary tables, die filer, ironworker, big paper cutter.... There's a evaporative crock water cooler too, don't know ANYONE with one in their house let alone garage. They going to curb home brewing too? Art studios? Full on photo labs? Taxidermists?

The mis-targeting administrations all have one thing in common; figuring out ways to criminalize anything and everything but actual criminals. And how many laws concerning that already on the books in incalculable number of communities.

Thanks Les for your info and link to the County's Web Page:

Attachment 35930

I can truly understand the leeway in interpretations of the above.
You stated: "several of those caught up in it were hobbyists."
Seems like it's been in force for the last 5 years, but I haven't found any media reports,
in social media or the like where this law has been enforced in some
crackdown manner on machinists (w non-"auto repair" activity).

I'll try to refine my question: -Which persons, engaged in what activity where,
was charged by whom and when and sentenced to what?

The answer to the interesting question: "Why the Code Enforcement is concerned" is the following:

The chemicals involved in major automobile repair can pollute our neighborhoods and endanger the health and wellbeing of our residents.​
​Furthermore, this kind of activity increases vehicle traffic and the visual impact can negatively impact property values.​

"Chemicals" - ATF, motor oil and gas - insecticides and herbicides in your shed won't endanger anything?

[Orwellian rant:] -Ah - yes: "-Property Value" of course - make sure not to annoy any neighbor ever in the future -
otherwise they'll call the Anonymous Tipline. An entirely new take on the term "Neigborhood Watch"...
They used to have effective neighborhood informants "on Anti-socialist activity" behind the Iron Curtain some 40 years back,
perhaps you as DIYers eventually will suffer the same for "unpatriotic anti-market activity?"

The H.R. 7468 Bill might be the consequence of lobbyists working for the blooming gun business not wanting their market to dwindle due to DIYers?:)

"We've certainly got the best legislators money can buy..."

Johan

Every time I hear of some new proposed regulation or law which has the potential criminalize otherwise innocuous activity my dander gets up. We all have acquaintances here on these forums who own or have built machines tools and devices which could eventually fall within the realm of some pencil pushing pink fingered liberat ( thanks TM51 for the moniker) do gooder's idea of what should or should not be in possession of the person owning it. The problems do not stop there however if allowed they could and most probably would aim their sights towards operating small businesses as well. Why should an oil change facility possess tools capable of lifting a head assembly from an engine or the engine so the oil pan can be removed, why should a muffler shop have a wheel alignment rack. Why would a tire shop require a vehicle computer code analyzer with reset capabilities? the list goes on endlessly but the explanations for the previous are self evident the oil change facility may determine a possible blockage in the engines lubrication system. the muffler shop may have to remove suspension components to replace the exhaust system, computer codes might cause a newer vehicle to go into limp mode due to imbalanced tire pressures or require resetting due to changing from summer street tires to winter tires or the sizes.
for the home or hobbyist (I dislike that description) their interests can be widely varied from furniture & cabinet making to pottery or metal working or electronics or knife making just to name a few.
Personally I am so eclectic in my interest that I might decide I want to do brain surgery probably would be on one of the pink fingered liderats to determine if they even had one LOL at which time I would require a host of equipment not generally found in an environment such as my shop.
For reason such as these maybe I should check to see if I have enough native American blood by combining the 2 known tribal associations to my family history to declare my property as sovereign nation unto myself paint purple on several of my fence posts then fill the huge hole I have excavated with anyone who I deem undesirable should they cross my fence line. I would vote in only those laws governing my nation as I saw fit and be subject to only those US federal laws pertaining to the sovereignty previously set forth towards the Indian nations. Can we see where this is leading? yes it wouldn't be pretty in the end. Since I don't consider myself as an anarchist but I do fit the description the Robert Heinlein coined, a rational anarchist. While I don't believe government has the authority to control our lives in any way other than insure the safety and wellbeing of all to a limited extent primarily for securement of our borders Which it has failed miserably in doing for decades . I also believe that there are those (Far too many in my opinion), who are not capable of self governing and do need a governing body to tell them when to eat what to eat and how to wipe their behinds after eliminating wastes from their bodies.

Frank S likes the "pink fingered liberat" epithet coined earlier. I considered pencil-pusher angle, just too low tech. Couldn't slip in a more derisive keyboard reference either.
May have been just too late in the evening for creative thinking?

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

Frank S likes the "pink fingered liberat" epithet coined earlier. I considered pencil-pusher angle, just too low tech. Couldn't slip in a more derisive keyboard reference either.
May have been just too late in the evening for creative thinking?

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Should probable add the phrase mklotz came up with "finger farking" pink fingered finger farking liberat mainly so we can offend more people as a group

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Should probable add the phrase mklotz came up with "finger farking" pink fingered finger farking liberat mainly so we can offend more people as a group

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Need more facets; they'll just see it as multi-tasking.

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Originally Posted by lest21

Johan,


The problem is this is a county ordinance that includes all areas of the county including agricultural land.
Les T.

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That statement alone makes it an invalid argument of “found in a normal residence”. Agricultural land is by definition NOT residential land and therefore not subject to these restrictions. Any lawyer will confirm this.

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Originally Posted by luvmygto

That statement alone makes it an invalid argument of “found in a normal residence”. Agricultural land is by definition NOT residential land and therefore not subject to these restrictions. Any lawyer will confirm this.

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You realize this was California they were talking about

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luvmygto

That statement alone makes it an invalid argument of “found in a normal residence”. Agricultural land is by definition NOT residential land and therefore not subject to these restrictions. Any lawyer will confirm this.

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Just as Frank S points out, it is Kalifornia. What attorneys know to be law elsewhere, gets subverted by a unique liberal body of lawyers retained by politicians. They administrate such in minutiae, far, far beyond ANY capacity to enforce more logical laws and regulations. Ronald Reagan said it best; "If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the name of liberalism." Attempts to dismantle Proposition 13, including constitutionality examination by Supreme Court is just one example. Myriad python-like firearms legislation is another; the list is endless.
Its as if documentation of real estate for home owners and business licenses have a check box for 'Dips**t with Liberal Bias' attracted the influx of left wing population. That creates an easily manipulated voting body, accepting civil codes hidden behind those warm fuzzy false-fronts.
These machinations wouldn't even occur, let alone pass in other areas where a clear thinking public of good sense, logic, and the extension of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" are held dear.
If I offended any residents, too bad. We had bigger plans 1700 miles east, had foresight [especially my genius foreign born spouse], and had enough...If I didn't; you signed the recall petition of your диктатор (diktator) Governor N yet?


Lol, clever formatting!

I am, as usual, coming in late to the party. Howsoever, I've seen one tiny speck of good news here lately, to wit: https://www.courthousenews.com/ninth...un-blueprints/

Though the header for the article is less happy-making: The appeals court decision loosens regulations on sharing untraceable 3D-printed gun files, but the Biden administration is expected to propose new restrictions on so-called ghost guns by May 8.

Surprised, I am, that it was the 9th "Circus" ruling, as they're usually down with most infringements on the 2nd Amendment.