Printable View
How a cookie cutter is made.
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Previously:
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...2215#post75959
aka slow mans finger masher!!! I like it!!!
Very cool but labor intensive for all the dies and setups and PLC(?) code to time and drive the pneumatic's. Also noted the placement of the seams for the cutter ring. So many shapes and size available now...thinking about this setup making a Christmas tree.
Thanks Jon...gets the noodle, noodling.
I think it could be simplified ( opperation of tool) like a round ring with cams on it to close them in the order or all at 1 time with just 1 movemment.and a roller on the end of each segment for eaze of operation. it could be lever operated or numatic...they also need not retract quite so far.
Without any context to this machine and the company producing only Ginger Bread cookie cutters (and maybe a couple of others) it is difficult to set any antecedence to their thinking and process goals. It may be that they are a Mom & Pop shop that put this thing together in a decent rudimentary way to crank out small runs based on the other operations, like forming, cutting and feeding the raw cutter cylinders. So yes, as marksbug stated a series of cams could be used actuate and time the operations manually, instead of a PLC or similar controller.
My hit is this may be a prototype as at :03 the die head at 4 O'clock (previous view was 180°) has a top plate that probably helps hold the cylinder down during the forming of the other cylinders yet is 4th in timing. Note: that gravity is holding the form in place and perhaps it isn't until the 3 previous ops it starts to lift the opposite side and the hold down plate is needed?!?
If one were to want to produce all the various types and sizes and be flexible for new designs in some higher quantities to keep them cost effective and salable, the first thing would be to make the setup modular and quick change, imho. If deciding to use this type of equipment, the rams would need multiple position mounting with a quick change die yoke, the center mold needs a drop-in/lock-down in approach. Probably adding perhaps an automated (timed) feed chute for the raw cylinders and a magnetic picker of some kind to drop the formed pieces into a bin...it would also be better if this were a vertical headstock assembly to facilitate the automation. This could all be done with simple ladder logic micro-PLC's and pneumatic's.
Full scale brain surgery/rocket science I would probably make a much larger machine which would form and side crimp the cylinders from 8' sheet stock, and feed the tube to a headstock that would form the top crimp, feed forward on to the die to a stop, part it off, then form the shapes with the cylinder dies, then eject/drop to an output hopper bin. "Crayon Overview"
Funny how the simple Gif lights a candle of verbose diagnostics and visions of the future innovation...
PJ
Why are the steps sequential? Is this just incidental, or is there a good reason for not doing all of these presses at once?
It's possible they could be done at one time as long as the punch dies don't interfere with each other to form the radii at the extremities. When all are closed you can see a slight gap between the dies at the radii which tells me they had to work the dies carefully with the timing to get a nice radii without deformation. My guess is that doing them all at once might cause some deformations at the quadrants of the radii and perhaps the straighter lengths. Single acting gives the ring time to settle for the next one to fire and doing it sequentially around the perimeter allows the stretching metal to move toward the seam at the crotch, as the last op to take up any additional stretched metal...that is why I mentioned the seam location previously. Note the slight gap at the seam in the final pic of the cutter. I do think the timing could be a bit faster though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
Great Tool Talk post and good question Jon, Thanks!
OK, this makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJs
Thanks! I've been upping my Tool Talk game recently. BTW, the inventor of the welding robot just showed up: https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...526#post117340Quote:
Originally Posted by PJs
doing in a sequance dosent pull or push the material giving a form not desired.(wrinkles,streaches,riped etc) first one holds it then the second holds the next then then next and so on. doint it willy nilly like 180 degrees apart you may have too much on one side and not enough on the other side for the next bends.
long ago in another life when i was programming&running cnc mills, mostly prototype aerospace&defense stuff,and some prototype stuff for the big automakers.we also did some small stuff for mom & pop type shops that did a lot of stuff like this. and of coarse we took care of the fishing fleet&charter boats in the aera after all it was a small drinking village with a fishing problem.....( Destin FL). I do miss having the cnc equipment at my fingertips.
I also made multi stage punch press dies witch thought me a lot...most of with I have probably forgot. and making big switch&gauge pannels full of holes cutouts some threaded holes and engraved for each switch or light...about 2' wide....and...probably 40"long...after it was all cutout drilled,taped,engraved(all on the same mill that I had to program&run off a print that a engineer did.....) and after it was done it had to be bent in atleast 3 angles for 3 diferent planes of switches & lights&gauges... of coarse the engineers havent a clue about bend raidi and how it moves everything..... I did about 4 sample's that did not fit...( thats a **** load of time&programing) it was .125 5052 aluminum I think. well after they didnt fit and the engineers werre pulling all thier hair out....it was up to me to figure all the bend raidi.....( I aint no math wiz.... ) so i figured it all,reprogramed, machined, then took to the bender and set it to where I wanted the bends and....sent it to them... the dam thing fit perfectly , then to make a pile of them, no problem. that and oh so many other issues with "engineers" has led me to...somewhat let it go in one ear and out the other with some filtering when a engineer is telling me something....( along with a few arguments).From my exp they all seem to be the same.... and are a necessary evil... well pain in the butt knowitall that usualy hasent a clue....I appoliguize to any "engineers out there if this offends you, but you should unserstand as Im sure you have also ran into engineers before. The shop owner was a engineer....I think his son was too,I had to redoo his/ their work oh somany times. usualy without his knowing it to make the product right. I wonder how many times they reworked the cookie cutter tool before it worked as desired.
Good call. It's even more satisfying making a Christmas tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJs
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Good one Jon! Ok, same folks different dies and difference sequences with more pneumatics. Were are you finding these? Note the stabilizing top plates on 2 sequential rams and they started at the seam. Also the peak of the tree being the last op and if you look carefully (in the top view sequence) there does seem to be a bit of excess material folding over a bit at the crown. Can't seem to single frame a Gif...do you know how?
Love the shape of the tree!! Beautifully done mold!
Was able to pause and get a jpg...
Attachment 25509
Everywhere. Social media in particular: Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Imgur, Instagram, numerous forums. Plus patent searches, niche viral content curation websites, historical websites, oddity websites. Twice daily I review all of my sources, either manually, semi-programmatically, or using basic scripts that I wrote to review RSS feeds, forums, etc. Sometimes I will do similar image searches or the like to find related material. Then everything gets chucked into a large bookmark folder that now contains thousands of links. Then I sort through that list for potential new posts, download and optimize the images or vids, and query our database for a relevant thread to add to, or make a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJs
This saves everyone from trudging through the signal-to-noise wasteland that is social media, and prepping the images and vids for proper format and size for uploading to a forum. It's a good bit of work, but it's worthwhile because the resultant discussions we have are unusually high-quality when compared to other discussions around the web of the same images or videos.
High praise and a Big Thank You for all that work and the many other task you do. I know that I in particular and many others here really enjoy and appreciate the Tool Talk part of this great forum.
:hattip: PJ
Yes I agree the tool talk sub forum is outstanding I check it several times a day and love making my sometimes zany comments just to see if anyone read them.
Good to hear! Plenty more coming down the line too.
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I like the note "open 8 befor 7" ...execpt befor y or q......or finger masherr.. thats neet. I could see early car parts being made this way.
Good use of bestako clamps
Eight tiny Reindeer and an Christmas tree with a Ginger Bread Santa...Oh my.
Interesting to see the similar setup in manual style with Over-center clamps (Not Destaco, but maybe very old ones, imho)...wonder if the this is the Proto, Proto for the previous. Mainly because it not made from a ring and to test the sequencing and will need Crimping or maybe a spot weld. I do believe this could definitely be done in a home shop.
Again Great die work!
I don't know why this is so fascinating to me, but it sure captures my attention in a soothing way. Thanks Jon!
Could be straight line toggles De-Sta-co model 603
https://www.travers.com/straight-lin.../p/61-190-130/
our simple minds are eazely soothed with simple machines.more, I want more please..... I think simple things get your brain working more than fully automated stuff...a lot more. I wish my brain was still working good enough to figure things that were at one time easy for me....I have way too much to do that may never get done.
Looks like you're right...never seen or used that camel toe lever on anything I built. The base in the Gif almost looks cast iron, but you are probably right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank S
Thanks Frank!
Not a machine and no graphics, but cookie cutters are easy to make. Can't find it or pix :-(
Get some cookie cutter "stock" from a craft store. Big circles or hearts work good. Easy to straighten.
Print or draw a picture of the shape the size you want (N.B. cookies spread in the oven) and glue it to some scrap.
Go around the outline and drill blind holes on the insides of the bends. The holes should be slip fit for your pegs/nails.
Drop 2 nails into adjacent holes, one innie & one outie and work your way around dropping nails in for the next bend.
Overlap the ends. I sharpened a 20d nail, still pyramid but sharp, and drove it through the lap and clinched the result.
It takes minutes to make the jig and seconds to make the cutter and both can make good gifts.
Enjoy,
Doug
Edit: found the PinkBunny! (Don't judge!)
Only the jig. The cutter is around somewhere.
Attachment 25556
The hole spacing is as detailed as you want.
Great Idea if I understand it properly. Sounds like a harness board type layout with the nails/pins and you're right rings are cheap at the craft store.Quote:
Originally Posted by saintrain
HMT at its best. Good Call, Doug!
I'm one of those boring cookie makers I figure they all taste the same shaped or not so when making cookies I sometimes just roll a whole slab of dough out on the sheet then make slices through it with a pizza cutter then bake. Square cookies may be boring but fortunately I am not having to make them for anyone under the age of 60
Best one yet.
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there seems to be no end to the possible shapes a delectable semi sweat, backed treat can be made into.
Personally I like spoon dropping the dough onto a baking sheet then flattening them with a fork tastes the same to me but then there are a lot of things humans do that I will never understand.
Like the other day I drove by a house with brick siding that was being covered with barn wood planks I just couldn't make any sense out of it. if they wanted to live in a barn why not simply have the old barn remodeled inside.
Frank
I must agree with you, people are some of the straingest creatures, but that is what make the world go round.
Differ strokes for differ folks
Nelson
Nelson your right if everyone liked the same thing the world might be considered a pretty dull place to live.
Personally I would probably consider it normal but I'm a little abnormal as it is LOL
I agree Jon, the special leaf is a nice trademark. Also like the way the seam jitters back and forth during the operation and settles in perfectly centered at the bottom. These all must be from the same company as the mountings and hardware all seems the same and every one fascinating to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
Still seems like a lot of setup and prep for one off small runs, but like Frank mentions its the contrast that gives flavor to life sometimes.
:hattip: PJ
Not exactly sure what the endgame here is, but this one has 10 pressing arms, instead of the measly 9 for the pineapple.
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Hail Canookia! :p
Looks to me like he may be testing the seam fold for a spot weld after forming. Notice the release of the first clamp then the tenth to fold over the seam in the corner (maybe .188 overlap). It also looks as if he's trying to figure out placement of the sheet metal for the seam flap in the beginning (:01).
The more I look at these the more I wonder how the dies and clamp heads are cut. Wonder if they are cut with some fret/scroll saw type device or possibly some EDM process from a large piece of stock to get the match for the bend relief, then just grind the spacing relief for the clamp heads. Tried to do a search but Google thinks I want a set of cutters to buy. Finally found this engravers blog for automation bakeries and their cookie line of Roll Molds.
These appear to be from CookieCutter...unfortunately MS was involved here. Family business in KC MO since 93.
HISTORY
In 1993, Cookiecutter.com opened its doors in Kansas City, MO. We had a grand plan to provide courteous service, one of a kind shapes and assist in the area of making memories.. We have grown from 50 items to over 1300 items and counting. We may change our look, but we still have the same goals. Call us, we are here for you.
Here is an Instagram of the Dad doing something...making a bunch.
and here is a link for the sheet metal cutter/roller...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BnmCU7Hg...on_share_sheet
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Hella-funny. Notice menacing last slide has most evil glare of all?
