I need a sheetmetal brake...

And capacity to cost ratio is outside scope of a non-commercial toolroom. But I keep looking. This I found, but name given returns next-to-no results for a manual machine. An unconventional design, is interesting at the same time it is questionable. So I put the question to the largest diverse body of craftpersons known.
Attachment 25317

In the same broad time period of course a shear is required. Cost again is a factor, 16 gauge 48" wide stomp units seem over the threshold from lightweight to medium capacity. Plenty of 36" inchers are floating around, too narrow in off the shelf material. I have found that Gap frame shears are capable of incremental slitting and I can design fabrications around that.
Attachment 25318

Toolmaker51,
Some questions for you...
What is your approximate budget?
How thick of material are you looking to bend? How wide?
Do you need a press brake (fingers that push straight down into grooved bottom tooling) or will a folding table style work?

On the shear, what are you trying to accomplish? I have a 36" foot stomper that I rarely use, and instead use my electric hand shears or electric nibbler. Shears are good for long straight cuts, and making bigger sheets into smaller ones that are more manegeable to handle.

Are you looking to do some volume parts or just one-offs?

I've designed sheet aluminum parts for many years in a high production, high mix facility with high end equipment. I also do plenty of sheet work for myself on projects, using more basic tools & equipment.
So knowing some background on where you're going with this could help us suggest some solutions that you'd find helpful.

[QUOTE=KustomsbyKent;116539]Toolmaker51...[QUOTE]
Thank you for such a quick response. Having seen the range of your builds, this is a great way to start.

What is your approximate budget?
Price of this brake is 30% less compared to any apron brake located over an extended period of time, and not too far away. So, the budget was set more by the market than a specific amount. Since standard material is 48", my logic was brake should be in range equal to shear size.
How thick of material are you looking to bend? How wide?
I like 16 gauge for projects I have in the wings. As above, 48" is common width, can be loaded, transported and manipulated alone. First few jobs are wireway brackets, drill bit shelves, toolbox carcasses.
Do you need a press brake (fingers that push straight down into grooved bottom tooling) or will a folding table style work?
Until shop has electrical power a press brake is out. My project designs have simple corners, seams and hems, X'ed or quilted panels; no offsets, large radii, goosenecks or such nonsense.
On the shear, what are you trying to accomplish? I have a 36" foot stomper that I rarely use, instead use my electric hand shears or electric nibbler. Shears are good for long straight cuts, and making bigger sheets into smaller ones that are more manageable to handle.
I've used powered hand-held nibblers and shears, but my plain functional designs are without contours. A foot shear is ideal, with front and rear gauges, again no electricity yet!
Are you looking to do some volume parts or just one-offs?
This particular brake [photo] I can front or back gauge too; for repeatability/ low volume.

Brief initial contact with seller started today! Best part, brake is rated 14 ga full width, a good capacity margin. Even good equipment, when they say so-and- so is the capacity, they mean it, not just in clamping but counterweights etc.
Initial sheet work area will be brake, shear, spotweld, an ironworker and punch press later on. Already have Roper bench punch, 5 ton, that I built a fixturing table for. Also have narrow bench bender with a greatly extended stop bar, a modified HF Compact Bender, and slip roll for wire.

[QUOTE=Toolmaker51;116548][QUOTE=KustomsbyKent;116539]Toolmaker51...

Quote:

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Thank you for such a quick response. Having seen the range of your builds, this is a great way to start.

What is your approximate budget?
Price of this brake is 30% less compared to any apron brake located over an extended period of time, and not too far away. So, the budget was set more by the market than a specific amount. Since standard material is 48", my logic was brake should be in range equal to shear size.
How thick of material are you looking to bend? How wide?
I like 16 gauge for projects I have in the wings. As above, 48" is common width, can be loaded, transported and manipulated alone. First few jobs are wireway brackets, drill bit shelves, toolbox carcasses.
Do you need a press brake (fingers that push straight down into grooved bottom tooling) or will a folding table style work?
Until shop has electrical power a press brake is out. My project designs have simple corners, seams and hems, X'ed or quilted panels; no offsets, large radii, goosenecks or such nonsense.
On the shear, what are you trying to accomplish? I have a 36" foot stomper that I rarely use, instead use my electric hand shears or electric nibbler. Shears are good for long straight cuts, and making bigger sheets into smaller ones that are more manageable to handle.
I've used powered hand-held nibblers and shears, but my plain functional designs are without contours. A foot shear is ideal, with front and rear gauges, again no electricity yet!
Are you looking to do some volume parts or just one-offs?
This particular brake [photo] I can front or back gauge too; for repeatability/ low volume.

Brief initial contact with seller started today! Best part, brake is rated 14 ga full width, a good capacity margin. Even good equipment, when they say so-and- so is the capacity, they mean it, not just in clamping but counterweights etc.
Initial sheet work area will be brake, shear, spotweld, an ironworker and punch press later on. Already have Roper bench punch, 5 ton, that I built a fixturing table for. Also have narrow bench bender with a greatly extended stop bar, a modified HF Compact Bender, and slip roll for wire.

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Just curious, what are they asking for on the apron brake?

I bought a 412 Roper Whitney box and pan brake at an auction the other year for about $1300. That was a reasonable deal. It is good for 12 gauge at 4'. It has a straight edge and then finger that can be installed.
Attachment 25348

For your option, it looks like you would get the benefit of interchangeable finger. I think this is a good value for forming things other than simple straight bends.

When you go to see it, take a few scraps of sheet to test bend. I would look at the tooling to see if it has been nicked or damages. I've seen damage done when rods or odd shapes are put under the tooling instead of sheet metal. Some of the damage can be machined out, but it takes time and machine set-up.

Let us know how it works out....

Also, I have kept my eye on press brakes..... for a brake to do 4', it seems they run about $4000 on up. Of course, that is probably a clutched machine and three phase.

In my mind, if that machine is $500, drop the cash and load the machine... If it's $1000, give it a quick once over, load it up... If it's $1500, test it all out, be aware of the quirks and then offer $1250.....

But your mileage may vary....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bimmer1980

In my mind, if that machine is $500, drop the cash and load the machine... If it's $1000, give it a quick once over, load it up... If it's $1500, test it all out, be aware of the quirks and then offer $1250.....
But your mileage may vary....

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First, let me Thank You for positive reinforcement. It's all about potential.
Your buying scheme is precisely how I do things, on a strategic level. Tool occasions are tactical issues, available machine and affordable at same time. My income, while acceptable, covers responsibilities I can't ignore. So, getting my building operative is always lower priority. All considered, that isn't a bad restriction......
a] I've accumulated spectacular deals, essentially perfect in ascending scale to each other.
b] My footprint reflects what I regard advantageous, based on what I've learned working & touring shops more than 50 years.
c] Very aware of value versus cost. 50 years beats any crystal ball...
d] Having worked some graveyard shifts points out what become critical issues. (ie) tool and cutter grinder alleviates worn endmill. When local suppliers are home asleep, I stay busy. That becomes salable opportunity of local shops reliant on me 24/7/near 365.
Vanna, can I buy another vowel?
e] With things so close to running, that provides confidence, a great motivating energy. Also patterns new avenues my local 'peers' don't see. [or, are they making enough income already?]

Anyway, this mornings call to owner is making things shape up. I'll be rigging and moving this on my own, so planning is important. This won't [crossed fingers] be half the job bringing a 36" DoAll bandsaw was. In 50 years, I've paid loads of attention to millwrights.

Judgement compared with DoAll wrong, this had little complications. Anyway she's here now, thanks for KustomsbyKent and bimmer1980. Posted move techniques at http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/m...quipment-69645

So brake's in my possession awhile, been 'tuning' and replacing the few missing items. Here I'll post a quick look at what took a little orchestration, and varied abilities.
One counterweight was missing, simple part once scrap was found.

A machine axle cutoff yielded 4"Ø x 7", drilled through 1 1/64th Ø. Drilled and tapped 1/2"-13, 1.000" & 4" from end, same pattern added to other three weights. These are setscrew holes, bearing directly on the weight arm, designed poorly in original manufacture, knurled cup points marring the arm and impeding adjustment. A single weight is 25lbs, evidence shows being vertical might be 1 screw insufficient. Photos have solution, 2 dog-point screws, and shallow 3/8" radius detent, spaced 1.500 apart [half the three inch spacing of weights], about .200 deep. As weights connect to apron in tandem, no reason says they need precise identical setting of left and right side. That creates individual 1.500 increments, and should balance the apron fine.
While 4 arms came in purchase, one been modified with a awkward double bend, that reassembly didn't reveal cause. Of two pairs, easy to discern which 'sister' was correct. I hung both over edge of weld table, mounting spare weight on the one to fix. A acetylene rosebud did so quickly, monitoring it's descent into parallel with sample.
Attachment 26694Attachment 26695
Now stop rings were welded in place. Originally, if weight slid down the arm, it'd jam at bend, very difficult to reposition. Used weight to locate ring closest to bend, and weld so weight and ring still faced each other squarely.
At same time, the other end, rings were welded in place to keep a dependable 'elevation'. Here again, 2 screws were taxed severely retaining an adjustment. I don't mind spending time to remedy shortcomings, especially related to saving hands or fingers.
Attachment 26697Attachment 26698Attachment 26699
Next, with all eight now paired alike, the detent pattern was milled into area weights connect to. They originate .020 farther from stop ring than the 1.000" of weights, to eliminate bind. The weight stop ring provides a dependable square surface to stop on, in this case mill vise edges.
Attachment 26696
Now, modifying new screws. Detents make this solution almost a finger-tight deal. Very simple turning dog-points on bolt ends, a little less than minor diameter of 1/2-13 thread. Locking is now external with square nut and washer, and a flat encircling the bolt hole. Bolts get anti-seize compound, just a 6" adjustable wrench will do the trick.

Way this brake works, is an apron either side of a descending die, not quite a press brake. Not sure why they wanted this arrangement, but it's growing on me. It can exceed 45° of a common brake. Everything [clamp and both aprons operate best from the 'main' side] and material stops [back gauge & front stop] can affix to either apron, and still have an extended table for deep parts.
Well, being equipped with all parts in hand shows why one had a custom bend....can also see their remedy was not very effective. I'll bend now at lower end to gain a couple inches deflection. Then balancing the aprons can proceed. Lower set screws will be used in socket, once correct splay of arms is determined. The back arms swing forward, so needing to miss the front arms. I'll spot drill detents, preserving their setting too.
Apron gauges are next. What I have as examples are cobbled uni-strut. Good idea, but misused and mangled. I can do better.