I think this is the right forum

At least I hope its the right forum.
A short while back on a forum ( hopefully this one) someone
posted a way of making a tool for turning round copper wire into D shaped wire
by drawing it through like a draw plate, but if I remember right this draw plate was made in 2 pieces.
One part has a hole drilled in it which was then milled down to leave just a semi circle and the other part was flat
and was bolted across the bottom of the semi circle to make the D shape

Was it on this forum that I saw it and if so can anyone point me to it please?

Cheers
Don

I don't remember one in the past 1 1/2 years but thyat is no tto say that someone hasn't done what you are thinking about
But I think if I were wanting to reform copper wire from round to a "D" shape I would look for an older wire feed drive unit from a mig welder one of the industrial use size with 4 roller drive . machine the first 2 rollers to the diameter of the wire with 1 of them only slightly flattening the second pair would be shaped to the final contour of the desired shape and size. in any case if this is to be used as magnetic or electrical wire it will have to be re shellacked
If you are wanting to just re form the ends or short sections of wire then you would only need to make a pair of swedging dies one with a grove the desired diameter of the wire used about 60% in depth of the diameter the other only being flat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

I don't remember one in the past 1 1/2 years but thyat is no tto say that someone hasn't done what you are thinking about
But I think if I were wanting to reform copper wire from round to a "D" shape I would look for an older wire feed drive unit from a mig welder one of the industrial use size with 4 roller drive . machine the first 2 rollers to the diameter of the wire with 1 of them only slightly flattening the second pair would be shaped to the final contour of the desired shape and size. in any case if this is to be used as magnetic or electrical wire it will have to be re shellacked
If you are wanting to just re form the ends or short sections of wire then you would only need to make a pair of swedging dies one with a grove the desired diameter of the wire used about 60% in depth of the diameter the other only being flat

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Thanks for replying, I wonder where it was I saw it ?
I want to make the D section to go around the edge of a model loco cab so
I will take your advice and make swage dies

Cheers
Don

On the rare occasion where I've needed half round brass wire, I wind some (round) wire tightly on a mandrel, stick it in the lathe and machine away half the wire diameter. Works well in brass and probably steel too but copper might be problematic depending on the grade of copper.

Thanks Marv I shall give it a try

Don

Given the application, I would think brass, especially one of the harder grades, would be a better choice than copper. It wouldn't dent easily and mar the appearance of the finished loco.

I really like Marv's suggestion for your application.
Adding a little to it though. since you will be re bending the wire in the opposite direction after machining to a fix it on the model use as large of a cylinder mandrel as you can make the wraps as he stated tight and close together even soft copper would be machinable but you must hone your cutting tool till it is as sharp as you have ever made one just as if you were cutting neoprene to make hydraulic piston seals take very fine cuts at medium high to high RPM. And try not to allow it to heat up as you are machining it as it will expand and become loose on the mandrel
For copper you could even do this on a wood lathe or drill press and use a file like you would dressing any final cut

I don't how much D wire you need, but for a short quantity, I would probably use the lathe method. If I needed a large amount, I would use the roll form method. This is is much more efficient than doing a wire draw, unless you wanted to make miles of it.

when I worked for a living we would use a grade of wire to form staples to hold books together and if we put too much pressure on the pusher bearings it would make the wire flat like a desk stapler uses. I would think you could adapt that theory and with a sleeve over a bearing with a groove cut in it to the depth and width of what you want the round to be, then put pressure with the second bearing pressing the wire to make a flat or a D shaped wire. All you would need to do is pull the wire between the two surfaces. My 2 cents out of the box

You could also mill the desired shape, so long as the width of the flat side of the D is less than the diameter of the wire. I'm talking relatively short pieces here, as the length of the drill bit matching the wire diameter will limit how deep you can bore into the holding material. *

Drill a hole lengthwise (like a tunnel) through some sacrificial material (I like to use UHMW Polyethylene, because it is cheap and mills very easily, but you could probably use any easily milled material) and put the wire in, leaving some stick out on each end. Bend the ends over to hold the wire in place. For example, to do 12 AWG copper, a piece of material 1/2 or 1 inch thick. You would stand it up so the narrow dimension is clamped in the vise. Now, chuck the piece up in a mill vise and mill the surface of the narrow edge of the material parallel to the wire, down until you get deep enough to contact the wire, and flatten it on one side. As long as you don't go too deep, the wire should remain held in the channel you drilled. Once you get it flat on that side, unbend the ends and pull the wire out.

* If the hole you drilled is snug enough, but allows the wire to slip through it, you "might" be able to pull some of the wire through, mill a length of it, pull it through more to expose the un-milled wire, and repeat. If this works, you could theoretically do any length of wire with the block you drilled. But I have not tried doing this.

I used this technique when I needed to mill a flat for a setscrew on the main shaft of an RC electric helicopter. The main shaft is steel rod 3mm in diameter. I was able to mill across it as it lay inside a piece of UHMW, and get a nice tiny flat for the setscrew, without bending the shaft.

Here is what Metalmuncher is talking about Just make a fixture that would mount to the table or in the vice choose the horizontal hole for the gauge of wire you desired you cold set the mill to cut as much or as little from the side of the wire you wanted
Attachment 19421

Thanks everyone for your input , there are a lot of good ideas there
for me to try out

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Here is what Metalmuncher is talking about Just make a fixture that would mount to the table or in the vice choose the horizontal hole for the gauge of wire you desired you cold set the mill to cut as much or as little from the side of the wire you wanted
Attachment 19421

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That's a nice design, Frank. What program do you use to make 3D drawings like that? I use TurboCAD, and have done a little 3D on it, but there's a rather steep learning curve to wrap my head around it for more than just occassional use. I learned the old top, front, and right side method of 2D paper drafting decades ago in HS shop, and still adhere to that style today for my own drawings. But I know there are many 3D apps out there now. Hopefully some are affordable by now.

Metalmuncher I have been using Solidworks just about since it first came on the scene Started in 99 with version 98 spent enough money on it over they years to have paid for a nice truck. You can buy a Teacher's or student version for reasonable but have to deal with expiration code. I could up date from my 2013 version to 2017 but since I dropped the yearly up grades a long time ago it would be like buying new.
SO as long as my 2013 version does what I need I'll stick with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Metalmuncher I have been using Solidworks just about since it first came on the scene Started in 99 with version 98 spent enough money on it over they years to have paid for a nice truck. You can buy a Teacher's or student version for reasonable but have to deal with expiration code. I could up date from my 2013 version to 2017 but since I dropped the yearly up grades a long time ago it would be like buying new.
SO as long as my 2013 version does what I need I'll stick with it.

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Thanks! I run an older version of TurboCAD myself. These tools are crazy expensive for the hobbyist, and I can't justify paying to upgrade yearly. I wish they would find a way to sell to us at more reasonable prices, since we aren't using them to make money. I've bought 2 versions of TurboCAD over the years, both on eBay, as they became more affordable due to being outdated versions (about $200 instead of $400). I see eBay has the student versions, but not the full Standard 3D CAD version. And on the Solidworks website, they don't even post the prices. They have a "request quote" link. I've learned to normally run away screaming from any such website who doesn't want to scare off potential customers by showing their insane product prices. :)

One of our close family friends has a daughter in college studying architecture, so I am sure she could help me get a student copy, if she doesn't already have one. Actually, the Student Edition 2017-2018 w/Training Bundle seems like an excellent package for $129. It even includes the Premium Version of Solidworks 3D. But it only runs for a year and then expires. If I jumped into this I would need to spend a major portion of my time studying to try to learn as much as possible within that time frame. Then I would probably want to invest in a license that doesn't expire. So (deep breath) how much does the Standard Version sell for?

I'm not sure any more but I'd make a guess in the $6000.00 range
And buying an older version off Ebay might not come with a real activation key then you are stuck with something that either won't function or will run for a while and the first time you forget ant allow it to try and up grade it will stop working altogether or you get a nice little note that you may have been the victim of piracy would you like top purchase bla bla bla.

One more thing in buying older versions from anyone ask them to provide you with either documented proof of a valid re-seller's license or multi user activation then you could contact Dassault systems to check out their credentials

You could try Sketchup Make which will produce the same thing, its free and a small learning curve and is now the only cad I use.

Thanks olderdan,

I will have to check out Sketchup Make. I have been using TurboCAD since 1995 with version 3 for Windows 95 and made several upgrades over the years. I now have the most current version TurboCAD Deluxe 2017 running on Windows 10 but I do not have the more expensive professional version with much better 3D capabilities. The TurboCAD Deluxe 2017 is very good at 2D CAD but not so much in 3D CAD (it can do it but most of the fast and advanced features are in the expensive professional version). You do need a good graphics processor with your Windows OS computer and an Intel® Core™ i7 processor or better to have the best drawing experience when rendering in 3D.

There is a great website with lots of tips and advice for TurboCAD at : Welcome

Regards,

Paul Jones

Thanks. $6K. Yikes. So much for that. Yes, there is always real risk in dealing on fleabay, and I've been bitten a couple times years ago. The key is to only buy from well established sellers with a ton of positive, and no negative, feedback. Doing that, I've remained safe for a very long time. Any web vendor can be unscrupulous, for sure. But that is everywhere, even in physical brick and mortar businesses. What DO they do with that card when they take it into another room to process it, as in most restaurants? Been there too. Thank goodness for the banking regulations that allow chargebacks when we get ripped off. I'm not afraid to go that route, and have done so multiple times. Most of the unscrupulous web presences rely on people simply giving in and taking the loss. I don't give them that satisfaction. :)

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Originally Posted by olderdan

You could try Sketchup Make which will produce the same thing, its free and a small learning curve and is now the only cad I use.

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Now we're talking! :D I'll look into that one. Thanks!

Just to illustrate I re drew Franks drawing in Sketchup , only took 3 minutes.Attachment 19449

For most of the things than one might want to draw of model skecthup will work great. If I didn't already have Solidworks I to would be looking for a less expensive alternative back in the earlier days of SW I had to use coroldraw and pro engineer to achieve certain things as well as autodesk I have Autocad 3d 2013 but it has expired and no longer functions
I haven't looked but I might even have skecthup on a thumb drive somewhere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

For most of the things than one might want to draw of model skecthup will work great. If I didn't already have Solidworks I to would be looking for a less expensive alternative back in the earlier days of SW I had to use coroldraw and pro engineer to achieve certain things as well as autodesk I have Autocad 3d 2013 but it has expired and no longer functions
I haven't looked but I might even have skecthup on a thumb drive somewhere

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I started out CAD with CorelDraw 8. Used it for several years, until Windows XP decided it didn't like it, and kept crashing it when I tried to draw. It was then that I started looking for alternatives. I found a cheap version of TurboCAD which, confounding to me, did not include dimensional tools!? What good is CAD if you can't measure what you are drawing?! I was on the TurboCAD support forum where a fellow clued me in on getting TurboCAD Pro by shopping for it on eBay. The rest is history. I figure TurboCAD Pro 19, that I have now, probably can do 3D like the drawing above, but when I got into it a little on something I was designing, and I HAD to have a 3D view to make sure things would align correctly, it was slow going to figure it out. But I did get the project done, and it works. :)

If Sketchup is the kind of program I could pick up and be doing simple 3D stuff like the above drawing in short order, I'm definitely interested! I'm gonna download it tonight and give it a go. :)

My only experience with AutoCAD was way back when all they had was a DOS version for home users. My best friend, a toolmaker (Lord rest his soul!) showed it to me at the time on his PC, but compared to what I knew how to do in CorelDraw at that time, it seemed very different and seemed to require a lot of command line entry just to get something I could have whipped up in minutes. I have never seen the newer Windows versions, but I have to assume it is able to do some pretty cool stuff nowadays. At least one would think so, for the $$$$. :) Thanks guys!

Maybe it is just me but Autocad from the days that you had to use a digitizing board through version 2013 always seamed clunky great for 2 d architecture and construction drawings but for guys like me who wanted to see the machine they were designing while they made them plus be able to check fit up and interference auto -cad was pitiful

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Maybe it is just me but Autocad from the days that you had to use a digitizing board through version 2013 always seamed clunky great for 2 d architecture and construction drawings but for guys like me who wanted to see the machine they were designing while they made them plus be able to check fit up and interference auto -cad was pitiful

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Well, thank you. I avoided using the word "clunky" in my description, wanting not to offend any potential AutoCAD users here. �� But I felt the same way.