Lathe Leveling Foot Pads

In my home workshop, I recently installed a 12”X37” geared-head gap bed metal lathe that was manufactured in Taiwan in 1987. The workshop is located in the garage where the garage floor has 1/16” per foot slope and the z-axis of the lathe runs in the direction of the slope. I built lathe leveling foot pads to help level the lathe in the x and z directions. The pads were machined from ASTM A36 mild steel plate that was rough cut with a CNC plasma cutter. The pads bottoms have a machined recess that leaves a 0.3” wide outer rim. The leveling bolts have a 12mmx1.75 thread pitch to fit the threaded holes in the bottom of the lathe stand. The threaded ends of the bolts were machined flat to fit into a recess in the pad tops. Each foot pad is 2.1” in dia., 1.5” tall, and has a 0.5” diameter by 0.5 deep recess in the top for the adjustable leveling bolts.

Thanks Paul! I've added your Lathe Leveling Foot Pads to our Lathes category, as well as to your builder page: Paul Jones' Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="/lathe-leveling-foot-pads"><img src="/uploads/111116/lathe-leveling-foot-pads.jpeg" alt="Lathe Leveling Foot Pads" /></a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="/lathe-leveling-foot-pads">Lathe Leveling Foot Pads</a> <span> by <a href="/builder/Paul+Jones">Paul Jones</a></span> </div> <div class="tags"> tags: <a href="/tag/lathe">lathe</a>, <a href="/tag/level">level</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>

Those are really nice foot pads, Paul Jones!

Hi Paul,

Nice-looking machining! Your Lathe Leveling Foot Pads are the 'Tool of the Week'!

You'll be receiving one of our official HomemadeTools.net T-shirts:

Attachment 3032

If you've already received one of our official HomemadeTools.net T-shirts, we'd be glad to award you a $25 online gift card from GiftRocket. Your choice!

Either way, just let me have (via PM) your details (size, color choice, and mailing address for the shirt or email address for the gift card) and we'll get things processed directly.

Congrats!

Ken

Ken,

Thank you very much for the recognition. I appreciate the feedback. I am always interested in seeing the variety of tools published in HomemadeTools.net. I plan to publish a series of other tool improvements for my 12"X37" geared-head lathe so stay tuned for more to come.

Thank you!
Paul

This thread has been moved to the Must Read subforum. Congrats (and thanks) to Paul for making such a valuable contribution!

Simple and elegant... Thank you Paul.
I have a Harrison L13 x40 lathe that will be receiving a new set of feet thanks to you.

Thank you. I still want to make the lathe a little more stable in the lateral direction. I think the footpads are too close together for optimum stability. One of these days I plan to attach sections of 4"x4" angle bar at the headstock and tailstock ends. The angle bars will extend approximately 3" beyond the front and back sides of the lathe cabinet, angle bar will be drilled and tapped for the same leveling bolts, and use the foot pads for height adjustments.

I know what you mean Paul... Lathes are so top heavy that they -seem- like they could benefit by a wider stance.
Has your lathe shown any instability with just the fine feet that you built, or are you just looking to make it more stable just because?
I've barely been tempted to extend the supports on other machines but I hate catching my toe on things that stick out so much- drives me almost nutty.

Machine leveling is somewhat a science all it's own. Paul Jones pads seem a good proportion to the estimated machine weight. Load bearing is central to leveling and therefore stability. Set machine on a flat, clean and dense surface. Rubber pads are for salesmen, not good lathe feet. Only non-metallic interfaces acceptable are machinery felt or diamond patterned interlock bonded to plywood. You can use feet too small that mushroom or indent floor, just like too large, which doesn't grip as intended.
You could easily duplicate commercial pads with a little research. Machine weight/ number of leveling points = estimated weight per pad. Unless you have a long bed shaft lathe, the headstock is adding weight to the feet, so the figure is valid enough. Find a manufacturer of solid steel pads, enter their chart with that weight and that will reveal a diameter to pattern yours after. A ball endmill or drill point makes a good socket. Don't fuss over the point shape, just get contact with the 'inner' 40-60%. A drill shape flattened on the end is very serviceable. If you don't have a radius attachment, a corner rounding endmill makes a good form tool, even file to shape if need be. What you made are essentially the same a C-clamp pads, just bigger. Threaded portion is best with fine standard threads for your diameter; more mechanical advantage to jack the weight and better for small adjustments. Provide a lock-nut at least on the underside. Use a level reading better than .001 per foot, a common torpedo is insufficient. A pair of bearing balls on CLEAN ways works to rough it in. Support the level at ends on unburred shim stock.
A true precision level is .0005 per foot; so sensitive drafts or breath will displace the bubble

Excellent information. Thank you much Toolmaker!
Precision levels are on my search list.

The current footpads provide all the stability I need but have always wondered about the rare case of an earthquake. The 1994 Northridge earthquake was 60 miles away and I remembered it violently shook for what seem like a long time. I didn't have the current lathe and wondered if it would remained standing with the current footpads.

I actually saw one of the Northridge earthquake aftershocks. My wife and I were playing doubles tennis and I was about to serve the tennis ball when about 400 yards away on the open grass green belt I could see what looked like a green undulating wave coming very fast toward us. Within seconds it hit us on the tennis court and hard to stand up and then gone. Being a geophysicist I thought this was so cool but I was the only one who was thrilled to be able to see an earthquake.

Nice job. I was too lazy to make it, so I bought them in China at https://world.taobao.com/item/527980....5VuIoa#detail
Bought 4 leveling foot pads dia 60 mm M12 thread for the lathe and 4 leveling feet pads dia 80 mm M12 thread for milling machine.
Here they are laying on the table in my cabin among some other stuff bought in China.
BTW, They are still in the box home. Not mounted yet.
Cheers
LMMasterMariner

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Jones

The current footpads provide all the stability I need but have always wondered about the rare case of a earthquake. The 1994 Northridge earthquake was 60 miles away and I remembered it violently shook for what seem like a long time. I did have the current lathe and wondered if it would remained standing with the current footpads. (abbreviated by TM51)

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Seeing an earthquake is stunning. In 1964(?) SoCal, Buena Park I saw the undulations start in a large fish tank. We lived in a split-level home with quite a long [as in parallel to the street] footprint. The 2nd floor family room, kitchen and pantry were all on the same plane; then a wave could be seen traverse 70-80 feet distance in rattling glassware, door frames, floor, curtains, hanging light fixtures, pedestal lamps from end opposite the tank. I dropped to floor between a sofa and sturdy coffee table. Probably safe enough, as only thing above was roof, rafters perpendicular to length of house, and a very tall wall connecting the level above but behind me. Makes me remember another mid-80's event at work. 40 something people ran like crazy, only to jam up around the nearest exit door. That building was tilt up concrete. My toolroom was along that edge midway between front and back. I crouched at left-side of Bridgeport to wall on right. A heavy bench was on left too, seemed substantial enough to bear some weight of the flat roof rafters above. Situational awareness I guess, a good tendency to cultivate with San Andreas Fault as a 'neighbor'. Don't recall seeing anything sway other than fluorescent lighting.
Anyway. Where I am contracting in Reno uses a portable 'machine shop' built in 40 foot shipping container. Can't post pictures from my phone until home again but I will. The portable aspect is tangible and reasonable. 1" x 8'" hot rolled plate is bolted to the floor and machines are bolted to them. No consideration of leveling is made; mill, surface grinder, drill press or lathe. The bolting suits transport, not precision machining.
1) Common milling machines forgive precise leveling better than lathes; because the ways are mostly independent of the body casting, even the verticals are well inside the footprint depicted by the 4 pad locations. And coolant drainage is iffy, no matter level or not. Anchoring is a different story because weight on the table can tip a mill, (ie) a 12" rotary table on one end, the X extended far as it will go to swing a big radius...Just saying. In a different shop, during set-up I could elevate the right side after zeroing the table center and moving left. Likely could have flipped it. Instead I swung the head to the right, indicating a tooling ball preset according to position of rotary table. Sometimes, set-ups need a set-up of their own before attending to job at hand.
2) Lathes are a different situation. Bench machines need a sturdy, flat level plane, to run as intended. Can't prove it, but the 5's, 7's and little 9x's people have trouble with, are probably due to fact it was just plunked on a flimsy pressed wood table and plugged it in. They haven't the mass to counteract the dynamic & harmonic force even a small machine can [will] create. Even the heaviest floor machine is just a casting. Never seen one with the anchor pads milled into a single plane, nor is any flooring material a single plane. A lathe might not oil it self correctly, or dump coolant all over if set on a 10 degree angle along the X, but it would still be accurate, if otherwise set correctly.
3) Grinders, saws, etc, different again. It is common to use a bubble level in set ups. Just because the bubble zeroes on material, has nothing to do with the wheel, blade, or ways.
So stability is king. Mating two non-flats requires adjustment, shimming, or bedding compound. Level is the standard reference; in reality that each pad bears it's proportion of weight is what is achieved. Level is almost a convenience, easily verified at a later date. Will it be if unstable?

Extending the feet on a lathe would work if a 'bond' was made between prescribed feet to added material. Like Mikebr5 I'd hate that impediment on the floor.
Seems I'll edit into this post when ideas pop up.
One will be a foot bolted to the original holes, 3x or 4x thickness of existing cast area. It is long enough to move pads outboard of footprint including wrench clearance to casting. The underside is cut away for the pads to function with out jacking up lathe higher and higher.
Drawing is jpeg, click it for increased size.
Attachment 19012

I agree with Toolmaker 51 in post #10
While in Kuwait there was this one company that we had sold several lathes to through our machinery sales division this company seemed to move their machines around more often than in indecisive housewife would rearrange the living room furniture. The biggest problem was they had this one extremely long light duty older lathe, the bed was less than 1 ft wide but 24 ft long and only about 9 inches deep it only had about a 10 inch swing over the carriage, I think it was originally intended to be fixed to a concrete pedestal not the 8 fabricated legs that it rested on. The only way I found to move it with any safety was to fabricate a long ridged spreader beam then lift it with 6 adjustable slings once in place we would shoot it in with a laser level to get it to a reasonably roughed in level then spend a full day fine tuning the levelness of the thing with 3 1 and 1 3 ft long machinery levels . Our levels and other installation equipment were 3rd party calibrated in a lab regularly as clock work every 6 months whether they had been used or not
Paul Jones the base of your lathe in the picture looks like a Victor I used to own a 16x40 gap bed Victor it was an excellent machine I made a few rifle barrels and hundreds possibly a 1000 hydraulic cylinders on it

Toolmaker 51 and Frank S,

Thank you for the advice. Both of you are far more experienced than I in the best way to set up machine tools. My lathe is a circa 1987 Taiwanese equivalent of the Victor and very well built with hand scraped surfaces. I like the suggested design of the extended leveling pads.

My lathe is located in my garage that has a slightly sloping floor. The lathe is located parallel with the floor slope. I use a 0.0005"/10" precision level (it took me almost two hours to first precisely adjust and self-validate this level on a surface plate - it is an extremely sensitive level and takes a while to settle in).

In my experience, the lathe ways have to be as close to leveled front to back (cross slide direction) and with the same reading at the headstock and tailstock in order to remove any minor twist in the lathe ways if you truly want to work within very tight tolerances. During the leveling process you have to take test cuts to verify the diameters over several inches from the headstock. The vertical leveling along the long axis direction of the bed is important because it makes doing cross bed leveling so much easier to set up. There are plenty of YouTube videos on doing this lathe leveling work. Don't assume the headstock is out of alignment until the lathe is very closely leveled and not an error due to lathe way twisting. From my experience, leveling the lathe ways makes the final and most critical cut along the lathe's long axis very predictable and consistently allows a constant cut diameter along the lathe long axis. The extra effort doing leveling for the lathe eliminates scraping parts and makes the final cut far more predictable and a less stressful operation when you have to hit your mark.

Paul Jones

awesome.going to make some

Nice job on the feet and I originally did something similar on my own 12x36 lathe however I found the lathe was far too tippy on such a narrow footprint as offered by this cabinet and ended up adding outriggers to increase the footprint and make it dramatically more stable.
Attachment 19024

backyard_cnc,

Your photo of the lathe leveling feet improvement is what I had in mind when I will be making the next set of leveling feet improvement. I think I will make it easier to construct by just coming straight out perpendicular to the cabinet sides and placed only 3" away from the front and back of the cabinets. I am sure your design was to optimize the support in all directions.

Depending upon the electric motor mount and lathe supporting feet designs, there can be many differeernt bad harmonics generated and can effect the lathe fine finishes ( see http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/l...ovements-17293 ). I found using Cylindrical Vibration Isolators for mounting the electric motor made a very big difference in the lathe final machine surface finish (see http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/1...chniques-19914 ). We have find a good way to support lathe on the floor and isolate the electric motor mount in order to reduce vibration harmonics. Even the fine adjustment of the change gears behind behind the headstock of a gear-head lathe with quick change gears can affect the final machined surface finishes.

Regards,

Paul Jones

Truth be told I bought a cabinet with these stabilizing legs attached and it was a simple matter to drill 4 new mounting holes and bolt them up to the lathe. I often use handcrank to do short threads up to a shoulder and if you got carried away it was easy to rock the top heavy lathe on the small footprint. On these outriggers it is rock steady. Had I made them from scratch I would have just done straight 2"" tubing. The increase in height was also a bonus!

Gerald

Sorry accidental duplicate post!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Jones

Toolmaker 51 and Frank S,

Thank you for the advice. Both of you are far more experienced than I in the best way to set up machine tools. My lathe is a circa 1987 Taiwanese equivalent of the Victor and very well built with hand scraped surfaces. I like the suggested design of the extended leveling pads.

My lathe is located in my garage that has a slightly sloping floor. The lathe is located parallel with the floor slope. I use a 0.0005"/10" precision level (it took me almost two hours to first precisely adjust and self-validate this level on a surface plate - it is an extremely sensitive level and takes a while to settle in).

In my experience, the lathe ways have to be as close to leveled front to back (cross slide direction) and with the same reading at the headstock and tailstock in order to remove any minor twist in the lathe ways if you truly want to work within very tight tolerances. During the leveling process you have to take test cuts to verify the diameters over several inches from the headstock. The vertical leveling along the long axis direction of the bed is important because it makes doing cross bed leveling so much easier to set up. There are plenty of YouTube videos on doing this lathe leveling work. Don't assume the headstock is out of alignment until the lathe is very closely leveled and not an error due to lathe way twisting. From my experience, leveling the lathe ways makes the final and most critical cut along the lathe's long axis very predictable and consistently allows a constant cut diameter along the lathe long axis. The extra effort doing leveling for the lathe eliminates scraping parts and makes the final cut far more predictable and a less stressful operation when you have to hit your mark. Paul Jones

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Paul, you are precisely correct about flat and parallel being critical to how a lathe will run. The plane described by the ways across X & Y has to be flat. But actual level is incidental, a great universal reference. A lathe would truly cut accurately if set on an incline, provided all other parameters are correct, it would look peculiar certainly.
:soapbox: A quick course on setting/ calibrating adjustable levels. Or non-adjustable, for that matter. Tape off a perpendicular area (right angle) of intended reference surface. Ideally the work should be draft free, clean surface, and stable temperature between plate and level. Set the level 'in' right angle boundary of tape and observe reading. Slide the level around and position as identical to before as possible. I've taped down all kinds of objects to be 'tooling stops'. If the level is accurate the reading will be the same; [emphasized] even off a whole bubble, long as identical both directions. Then slip two equal strips of clean feeler gauge, gauge pins, small dowels, needle bearing rollers, anything with a ground surface, under the level. The reading still should remain, after eliminating errors in contact of level and reference surface.
Or a user could send to a cal-lab for a pricey tab; betting they will not take the same pains to insure reading, and certainly not at standard temperature of your shop.
But the cert will look good in a frame...
:soapbox: Another trick for levels is a tapered leaf. Any angle will work, face mill (not grind) a decent strip of good steel (mine is A2) of around the width of your favorite level. I suppose mine is 1 or 2 degrees something, taper starts out .020 thick to just over 1/4" in 7 inches.
Put a small mark at convenient distance from end on your level, like an arrow point of masking tape, 10" and 12" work well on this side of the pond. So now you are setting up new mill, shaper, lathe, grinder, jig bore, broach, rotary head milling machine, plasma table, surface plate; Did someone send you a check$$!?
The first reading will be off. Slip the taper under the low end and move in until level is zeroed. Mark the taper with a pencil (why you don't grind it), remove and check with a caliper how thick that area is. Lets say it's .019 in 10". That equals more or less .0019 per inch. The distance between feet of the machine touching the floor is 91". One side is low .1729 inches, and very close to how much is needed to raise that end nearer to being level. You could even calculate thread pitch of the jackscrews and turn them close to the needed amount. What if the taper is too thick? Dang TM51 told me to make it too thick! :flame:
No it isn't; put a feeler under the 'high side' a bit more than its minimum thickness of taper, you can read down to a couple thousandths. Oh, that TM51!:)
When you are crawling on hands and knees leveling a 10-pad boring machine or lathe, you'll be glad you made that taper.
Of course it is usable to check any sort of opening or gap as long as it fits.

Toolmaker51,

Great advice on leveling the machine tools. I like your advice on taping off the reference surfaces where I had just marked the lathe ways with a felt tip pen. Measuring the leveling correction with a tapered leaf will save a lot of trial and error iterations and your back. The bigger the lathe, the longer it takes on the iterations and this would be a real time saver before one ran out of patience on making it perfect.

The only reason I like my lathe to be level in all directions is because I sometimes use small levels in some of my cutting tool setups and I need a truly level reference to the lathe.

Regards,
Paul Jones

Toolmaker,

Since my original posting, I check the leveling of this lathe every six months with a precision level with calibrations at 0.0005 per 10" and use sold 1-2-3 blocks on the ways to average-out any imperfections. It takes five less than five minutes because there is usually no change in the leveling over time but worthwhile checking. However, it takes some patience in doing the leveling because the precision level is very sensitive and the level takes several seconds to stabilize. It is worth the effort because the perfect leveling removes any slight twists in the lathe bed. The leveling results in allowing accurate and repeatable lathe machining work depending upon the wear on the machine. I sometimes use conventional bubble levels in my initial setup work on the lathe and this only works well when the lathe is perfectly level in the longitudinal and cross-wise directions.

I have not added the sections of 4"x4" angle bar at the headstock and tailstock ends to make the footprint of the leveling pads wider because the lathe remains stable over time. However, it is probably a good idea because we live in earthquake country and the lathe could topple.

I do wish I had spray painted the outside of the steel foot pads (but not into the inner holes) because the pads are starting to develop some rust after a few years of contact the concrete floor. It is not a big deal but a suggestion.

Regards,
Paul

Thank you for a very nice job. Regarding the proposed widening of the rests, may I point out, that projecting the angle bars is going to create a handicap as you will be knocking your shoe every time going around the lathe. May I propose that you extend the angle bar only towards the back, leaving the front corners flush with lathe base. Just a thought...