Motorized rotary table

5 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

I have posted the code on HMT (above)
Please note I am sure there is a better way to programme but this is my first attempt. If improvements can be made to both codes I would be interested as this is been a long and sometimes frustrating, step learning curve for me and it has taken well over six months to get it to finally work. Lots of help and research on the net to try and understand C+ code. This was suppose to be a simple index project but grow and grow as I realised what could be achieved with the Arduino. I am more than happy for members on HMT to rip the code apart and tell me how I could improve or made it better. I feel the programming is as messy as the wiring in the control box but it does work.
The Home Engineer

I made a similar project earlier this year but I had forgotten about your project when I did it. Considering that, it is surprising how similar the final results are.

It has different modes selected by the letter keys, viz:
* Divide a revolution into N parts and advance one for each button press. (Shown in video)
* Continuous rotation at a specified speed until stopped (also in video)
* Advance to a specified number of degrees.

Anyway the purpose of this post is to enquire whether you are still interested in looking at different coding possibilities. I am quite willing to share my code if you wish. It is only 250 lines and uses a single Arduino Nano. In the meantime here are some pix. Click on them for full size.

Attachment 45532 Attachment 45533

The controller. This contains a simple transformer/diode bridge and capacitor power supply for the motor as well as a small power supply for the Nano and display.

Attachment 45534 Attachment 45535

This shows the cardboard templates for a pneumatic brake. Which locks the table when stopped. The software controls this automatically.

I use a closed loop stepper and controller. This ensures no lost steps and the controller takes care of everything.
Here is a one minute video of it in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6HvGgEiyU

I forgot to add that I can feed directly into the motor driver from my mill CNC system turning into a 4th axis.

Thanks tonyfoale! We've added your Motorized Rotary Table to our Machining category,
as well as to your builder page: tonyfoale's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-motorized-rotary-table-4"> <img src="/uploads/259363/homemade-motorized-rotary-table-4.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-motorized-rotary-table-4">Motorized Rotary Table</a> <span> by <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/builder/tonyfoale">tonyfoale</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/arduino'>Arduino</a>, <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/rotary-table'>rotary table</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>

Looks like a nice setup. Are you able to adjust the speed during any operation like when moving by degrees? I am interested in getting the code.

Randy

Tony, would be real handy just to post the 250 lines here, as it's easy to copy paste into an Arduino sketch.
Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

Tony, would be real handy just to post the 250 lines here, as it's easy to copy paste into an Arduino sketch.
Thank you.

I'll dig it out and post it.

Six posts split out from this thread by thehomeengineer: https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...286#post150278

Congratulations tonyfoale - your Motorized Rotary Table is the Homemade Tool of the Week!

This is not only a nice powered rotary table, but it's especially interesting to hear that it connects to your mill CNC.

Some more nice builds from this week:

ER40 Chuck Runout Fix by Alans Home Workshop
Compressed Air Torch by celsoari
Drawbar by winkys workshop
Rotary Knife by Philip Davies
Workshop Trolley by Kwandotechnic
Chuck Backplate by Improvised DIY
Drill Bit Sharpening Fixture by orioncons36
Mini Hand Drill by My MiniCrafts

tonyfoale - we've added your tool entry to our All Homemade Tool of the Week winners post. And, you'll be receiving a $100 online gift card, in your choice of Amazon, PayPal, or bitcoin. Please PM me your current email address and gift card choice and I'll get it sent over right away.

This is your 17th Homemade Tool of the Week win! Here are all of your winning tools:

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Oh my, Tony you could be at the F-1 race this weekend and here you are posting to HMT! ;)

What is the resolution of a step? (0.1, 0.01, etc., degrees)

Jon,

I certainly did not expect TOTW. It started as a delayed response to the similar post by the thehomeengineer which also won a TOTW, and when split into its own post I intended to add a lot more detail, and still will. Anyway I will gratefully accept the award with a feeling of modesty.

17 Attachment(s)

I have put the code for the control on dropbox, here is the link https://www.dropbox.com/s/2021uz1x4s...Rotab.ino?dl=0

To load it into the Arduino IDE you will need to put it in a directory called Rotab (It must be exactly the same as the .ino file name.) That is an Arduino rule not mine.
On simple projects like this I almost never draw a schematic and I do not have one for this tool. I will recreate one by reverse engineering the code and I'll post that soon. In the meantime here are a bunch more photos with minimal explanation on most.

Attachment 45547 Attachment 45548 Attachment 45549 Click images for full size.

The first pic. shows the input spindle bush which has only been machined concentric with the bore for part of the circumference, as marked. I needed to use that for a location and wanted the OD to be concentric all the way around. That piece is cast iron and I did not want to machine it down too thin. So I just took enough off to locate a steel sleeve, the remaining gap was filled with epoxy. Here is the sleeved part. This piece is critical and is highly loaded because it takes the overhung weight of the motor.

Attachment 45550

Attachment 45551 Attachment 45552 Attachment 45553

Attachment 45554 Attachment 45555 Attachment 45556

Attachment 45557 Attachment 45558 Attachment 45559

At the time of building I did not know if I would end up using a Nema23 or 24 motor. They are very similar in size but the mounting holes are on a slightly different PCD. By drilling and tapping two sets of holes, each set with an angular offset from the other I could accommodate either motor.

Attachment 45560 Attachment 45561 Attachment 45562

These types of rotary table allow adjustment of the worm to control backlash, but there will always be some unless the adjustment is so tight that it is difficult to turn. Backlash is not too much of a positioning problem if you always drive the table in the same direction throughout a particular job. A brake is a reasonable solution and most come with simple clamps 180 degrees apart. I know some people who have made motorised tables put various forms of actuator on these clamps but I do not like that. I am sure that the clamp threads will have a short life. I have made an insideout drum brake pneumatically operated and the software automatically controls that via a solenoid valve. I do not seem to have photos of the finished brake (it was the last piece to be made) so I show the cardboard templates instead.

Attachment 45563 Ok for manual use but not so good for powered use.

I'll make another post about the control system. It is dead simple.

Very easy to read code.
Thank you Tony Foale.

Interesting brake add on. I assume you had some sort of friction material attached to the brake arms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

Very easy to read code.
Thank you Tony Foale.

Interesting brake add on. I assume you had some sort of friction material attached to the brake arms.

No friction material, just aluminium. Remember this is a holding brake only. It only gets applied or released when the table is stationary. There is never any rubbing.

Nicely commented, Tony. For someone with zero experience with microprocessors I could even find the on/off code for the brake! :)

I'm looking forward to the rest of your information.

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

Interesting brake add on. I assume you had some sort of friction material attached to the brake arms.

I did have a photo after all of the real brake shoes. Here it is showing torque testing of the brake.

Attachment 45593

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

Oh my, Tony you could be at the F-1 race this weekend and here you are posting to HMT!

I was the works manager for a F1 team in the early 1970s just at the start of serious aero add-ons and Bernie's influence which coincided with the the end of interesting racing. I have no interest at all in F1, it is so boring. If you want good racing have a look at motoGP. Better yet the TT which has just finished.

1 Attachment(s)

It goes against my usual way of working but I have drawn a schematic. If you are contemplating making something like this then here is not the place to ask about how to load the code or connect to an Arduino. Arduino.cc is full of helpful tutorials and guides on all of that basic stuff.

The motor and driver need to be sized to match the size of your table. I STRONGLY advise using a closed loop stepper motor. Nowadays they are not all that much more expensive than open loop but they are just so much better. The driver and motor are often sold as a pair and I have seen some offers with driver, motor and power supply as a package. I made my own motor power supply so I got the motor and driver only. You will need an 8 to 12 v DC power supply for the Arduino. This has a very low power requirement and you could use a 9 v DC wall wart or similar.

PS. I just noticed that on the drawing in the BOM I wrote "Brake solenoid" that should read "Brake solenoid valve".

Attachment 45594 Click for full size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfoale

I did have a photo after all of the real brake shoes. Here it is showing torque testing of the brake.

Attachment 45593

Looks like a test setup to see what sort of force (provided by the test spring) was needed. Since you used an air cylinder to provide this force, and I assume air pressure of 90psi (6bar), how large a diameter cylinder did you use to get the brake lock force you wanted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

Looks like a test setup to see what sort of force (provided by the test spring) was needed. Since you used an air cylinder to provide this force, and I assume air pressure of 90psi (6bar), how large a diameter cylinder did you use to get the brake lock force you wanted?

25 mm diam and 25 mm stroke.

1 Attachment(s)

In comment #17 there is an error in the schematic. Pin A5 schould be labelled SCL not SDA as shown. Here is the corrected version.

Attachment 45746 Click on it for full size

2 Attachment(s)

I have been using this over the past couple of days to make a motorcycle clutch.

Attachment 47237 Attachment 47238 Click for full size.

I realize (realise) you are just drilling the holes, Tony but seeing your photo of the timing belt hub reminded me that Hass came out this week with a carbide insert for forming the tooth profile. The geometry is here but I found their video quite interesting. Around 0:42 they describe the 3 popular tooth shapes. I instantly thought of your ELS and other possibilities, as well as indexing the lathe spindle on a manual lathe. So many interesting things to do!

I tried to post a clickable link for the video but it looks like YouTube has taken control and now plays the video (in large size). I find it annoying because it clutters up the post so I shoved it to the bottom of this post.

https://youtu.be/Umn_5MmGCB0.

3 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

I realize (realise) you are just drilling the holes, Tony but seeing your photo of the timing belt hub

You have lost me here.
Firstly, Drilling what holes?
Secondly, I think that you are confusing a clutch hub with a timing belt pulley. Those teeth are convex shape whereas pully teeth are concave. As in the Haas video I did use a form tool for that. I modified my T&C grinder https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...fference-56205 to be able to make the tool. The Haas video formed the teeth by slotting whereas I did it by milling.

Just to be clear, this work was done on a mill not a lathe.

The tooth shape had to precisely fit an off the shelf clutch plate as shown here. It was a tricky job because there was no easy reference off the tool from which to set the DOC. I was unsure how good a job I could make of it so I made a test example using 1/4" plate, so as not to risk the real thing.

Attachment 47249 Test piece. Click for full size.

Attachment 47250 Clutch plate on real piece.

Attachment 47251 Assembled clutch pack.

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Opps, sorry for the confusion, Tony. I saw the partially drilled hub and thought you were indexing to drill the bolt circle. The teeth looked so good I thought you purchased a timing pulley that you were modifying. I didn't think you were cutting them. I should have known better!:embarrassed: And since some motorcycles use a drive-belt-timing-pulley I wasn't thinking of a clutch hub even though your other pic clearly displayed that. Thought maybe you were developing two different improvements at the same time.

The video reminded me your ELS would be a good application if an indexing scheme was worked out for a manual lathe. Both of what I want to do eventually.

Attachment 47252

PS: Your hub teeth look like a timing curvilinear-tooth-profile which added to my confusion. Oh well ...

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

Opps, sorry for the confusion, Tony. I saw the partially drilled hub and thought you were indexing to drill the bolt circle. The teeth looked so good I thought you purchased a timing pulley that you were modifying. I didn't think you were cutting them. I should have known better!:embarrassed: And since some motorcycles use a drive-belt-timing-pulley I wasn't thinking of a clutch hub even though your other pic clearly displayed that. Thought maybe you were developing two different improvements at the same time.

The holes were just spotted through from the mounting plate. Only two had been drilled and tapped just to hold the mounting plate while I clocked true.

Attachment 47253 The drum was clocked true to the mounting plate in the lathe and the outer surface machined as a reference.

Attachment 47254 The outer surface was then clocked true on the rotab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

The video reminded me your ELS would be a good application if an indexing scheme was worked out for a manual lathe. Both of what I want to do eventually.

You only need to add a closed loop stepper to the spindle and add a few lines to the software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

PS: Your hub teeth look like a timing curvilinear-tooth-profile which added to my confusion. Oh well ...

The tooth profiles are close to being inverses of each other. It is almost trivial to grind up a tool for making pulleys, the shape I needed was a touch more difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfoale

You only need to add a closed loop stepper to the spindle and add a few lines to the software.

And maybe a brake too?. Don't know if I would trust the stepper to "hold" during the shaping?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfoale

The tooth profiles are close to being inverses of each other. It is almost trivial to grind up a tool for making pulleys, the shape I needed was a touch more difficult.

Not sure I'm understanding your "inverse" profile. Your teeth looked curvilinear. Are you indicating you modified that shape?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

And maybe a brake too?. Don't know if I would trust the stepper to "hold" during the shaping?

Not sure I'm understanding your "inverse" profile. Your teeth looked curvilinear. Are you indicating you modified that shape?

The stepper is not a problem for holding, just use a big enough one. Any holding problem will come from any backlash between the motor and the spindle. For example, the worm and wheel driving system on the rotab. As described in my original post I made an automatic brake for this. That was fine when the rotab was horizontal but when I came to make this clutch I found out that the mounting bolts wanted to occupy the same space as the brake. The bolts won.

About the profiles being inverses of each other, maybe this will help.

Attachment 47255

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I think the time differential has us out of sync! LOL

I was thinking of your ELS as the driver to shape the teeth of bar stock chucked in a lathe as seen in the Haas video. In that case the lathe would need an indexing plate and someway to lock the lathe spindle, or as you indicate, incorporate a stepper to do the indexing and it would be strong enough to hold it. There is no rotab attached to the lathe.

The tooth profile I was discussing is the Gates standard timing belt as show in the Haas video. Here is a screen shot from the video.
Attachment 47256

However, your sketch looked like the old HTD style that I remembered and that caused me to look for other "standards". Wow, I didn't realize there was so many un-standards today! Lol Here is a link that I think covers most of them.

Anyway, many thanks for your patience and help. I now understand exactly what you are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

However, your sketch looked like the old HTD style that I remembered ....

Anyway, many thanks for your patience and help. I now understand exactly what you are doing.

The HTD is the inverse of what I needed.

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltfever

Opps, sorry for the confusion, Tony. I saw the partially drilled hub and thought you were indexing to drill the bolt circle. The teeth looked so good I thought you purchased a timing pulley that you were modifying. I didn't think you were cutting them. I should have known better!:embarrassed: And since some motorcycles use a drive-belt-timing-pulley I wasn't thinking of a clutch hub even though your other pic clearly displayed that. Thought maybe you were developing two different improvements at the same time.

The video reminded me your ELS would be a good application if an indexing scheme was worked out for a manual lathe. Both of what I want to do eventually. ...

Well I guess that I have done what you are talking about. I have been converting my electronic lathe to do cam grinding but it was not straight forward to get my lathe spindle to turn with a variable speed over each revolution, and then there is the question of adding a very low resolution encoder to it. In the middle of the night it hit me. Replace the lathe headstock with the motorised rotab.

Attachment 48180 Attachment 48181 Click for full size

Here is a 3 minute unlisted video as a teaser before I find the time to document it all.

https://youtu.be/8gziaZihySo
and with sparks
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pfswb...=emvk6j0b&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4inw4...=6iv13kxa&dl=0

Thanks tonyfoale! We've added your Cam Grinding Setup to our Machining category,
as well as to your builder page: tonyfoale's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-cam-grinding-setup"> <img src="/uploads/271869/homemade-cam-grinding-setup.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-cam-grinding-setup">Cam Grinding Setup</a> <span> by <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/builder/tonyfoale">tonyfoale</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/machining'>machining</a>, <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/rotary-table'>rotary table</a>, <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/camshaft'>camshaft</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>

I just want to point out that the post above regarding cam grinding is just there to answer some of Saltfever's queries about the use of my motorised rotary table. I intend to write up the CNC cam grinder project in detail and will make a full posting then. It will be a rather large post or more likely several large posts. There was a lot of stuff done to get to the finished stage. Some of it mechanical, eg. Fitting linear ball rails to a replaced cross slide. Some of it electronic e.g. the controller runs independently of a PC to feed the motor drivers, but connects briefly to a PC to download profile data. Some of it software, e.g. Algorithms for measuring existing cam profiles, synthesis to produce new profiles from scratch, wireless data transfer, creating data that the grinder understand. Some of it is mathematical, cam design is all about trigonometry and frequency analysis etc.
You get the idea, it will need a large post to do it justice.

A "large" post indeed! . . . but looking forward to it, Tony. :)