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Thread: Spindle square - video

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    Jon
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    Spindle square - video


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    freddo4 (Apr 16, 2021), Home-PC (Apr 16, 2021), nova_robotics (Apr 25, 2021), sacco1 (Apr 18, 2021)

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    Hello,
    I'm the creator of the spindle square, and I just joined the forums . If you have any comments or questions about the tool let me know

    I'll be posting more around here, the place is full of interesting designs!

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    Jon (Apr 20, 2021)

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    Supporting Member mklotz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmill View Post
    Hello,
    I'm the creator of the spindle square, and I just joined the forums . If you have any comments or questions about the tool let me know

    I'll be posting more around here, the place is full of interesting designs!
    You requested comments...

    Most of your video is a boringly long record of a CNC mill making a frame. Since you're a self-described youtube machinist, tailor your videos to an audience who doesn't know what you're making or why they should want one. Start by showing the finished product and explaining visually what it is and how it is used. Then, if you must, a few very quick clips of the construction of its parts and finally its assembly into the finished product.

    For almost as long as mills have existed, machinists have used a single DI on an arm to tram the head. The procedure requires only a a single DI, is trivial to construct, and works well. The implication is that this design is better than the old method. However, it's more complex, more expensive, takes more time to construct, and requires matched DIs. Your video should address this issue and detail your arguments about how this design is an improvement over the traditional approach; this is the "why should they want one" portion of the video mentioned in the previous paragraph.

    Finally, welcome aboard. I think you'll enjoy the time you spend on this forum as much as I do.
    ---
    Regards, Marv


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    Jon (Apr 21, 2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz View Post
    Most of your video is a boringly long record of a CNC mill making a frame. Since you're a self-described youtube machinist, tailor your videos to an audience who doesn't know what you're making or why they should want one. Start by showing the finished product and explaining visually what it is and how it is used. Then, if you must, a few very quick clips of the construction of its parts and finally its assembly into the finished product.
    Hi Marv, I agree with you. My original idea was only to showcase the fabrication process of my solutions to some problems, or particular implementations of some common-ish tools without focusing on explaining them, and I do enjoy seeing the chips fly around and "reveal" the part underneath. But I understand my wants may not match the audience needs, and in retrospective, I do feel that I missed several opportunities to communicate more things with the video. I'm still trying to find a good balance, and these kind of feedback is much appreciated, so many thanks!


    Regarding the actual device, I've used the DTI on a bar approach up until now, but it always felt clunky to me, bumping the tip over the edges of table slots and blocks or something. The tramming square gets rid of it, and allows me to continually observe the change in the spindle axis orientation as I rotate the head, without having to pause to give the indicator a spin (as you said, I should've put this stuff in the video). Price is not a particular issue with these tools, I spent like $5 in metal and fasteners. I had the indicators already, so they're not really an extra expense, and I can remove them from the square and use them somewhere else when needed. They also do not have to be matched, unless you want them to be zeroed at the same position in the dial.

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    Supporting Member mklotz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmill View Post
    Hi Marv, I agree with you. My original idea was only to showcase the fabrication process of my solutions to some problems, or particular implementations of some common-ish tools without focusing on explaining them, and I do enjoy seeing the chips fly around and "reveal" the part underneath. But I understand my wants may not match the audience needs, and in retrospective, I do feel that I missed several opportunities to communicate more things with the video. I'm still trying to find a good balance, and these kind of feedback is much appreciated, so many thanks!


    Regarding the actual device, I've used the DTI on a bar approach up until now, but it always felt clunky to me, bumping the tip over the edges of table slots and blocks or something. The tramming square gets rid of it, and allows me to continually observe the change in the spindle axis orientation as I rotate the head, without having to pause to give the indicator a spin (as you said, I should've put this stuff in the video). Price is not a particular issue with these tools, I spent like $5 in metal and fasteners. I had the indicators already, so they're not really an extra expense, and I can remove them from the square and use them somewhere else when needed. They also do not have to be matched, unless you want them to be zeroed at the same position in the dial.
    Re: "bumping the tip over the edges of table slots and blocks or something" ...Get a brake rotor and lay it on the (clean) table; swing DI on that.

    Your costs, DI availability, and the fact that you have a CNC mill available aren't necessarily the case with your viewers. If you do cost/time comparisons, assume the worst case for your viewers.

    The orthogonality of the frame to the rod that supports it in the mill is important, as is the equal spacing of the DIs relative to that rod. I didn't have the patience to watch the whole video. Did you make that clear? If not, you should for the benefit of folks who are inspired to build one.
    ---
    Regards, Marv


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    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz View Post
    Re: "bumping the tip over the edges of table slots and blocks or something" ...Get a brake rotor and lay it on the (clean) table; swing DI on that.
    Yup, or a bearing race. Or better yet, make a spindle square, because sometimes the other stuff doesn't fit on top of whatever one is trying to indicate .


    The spindle square shaft doesn't need to be precisely aligned with the frame, nor do the indicators precisely spaced from the center. It can be off like 0.1 inch on a 5 inch spindle square and it wont matter (the error created by this decreases the more you get in tram). Home shop tolerances are more than good enough to make a functional tool. Think about it as hooking two indicator tramming bars to the mill at the same time. The position of the bars and the indicators is irrelevant, i. e. one can be above the other or they can be facing different directions. The only things that matter are that their tips are 180 degrees apart, that you can reach roughly the same spot on the table to zero both of them. We can even have some indicator cosine errors, as long as they're roughly the same, as we only compare the produced measurement without really caring for the actual linear displacement.

    And no, I didn't mention any of that in the video , but I do realize that explaining some things in more detail is necessary.

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    nova_robotics's Tools
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmill View Post
    Hello,
    I'm the creator of the spindle square, and I just joined the forums . If you have any comments or questions about the tool let me know

    I'll be posting more around here, the place is full of interesting designs!
    Right on man. Great work. I like it. I commented on your Youtube video because, you know, algorithm something something. That's new internet etiquette, isn't it?

    Why the two dial indicators? Did you make the chamfering at 1:30 run backwards as an Easter egg? Like a subtle This Old Tony ninja-chop for people that are paying attention?

    Also gotta clear your chips man! My butthole was puckered the whole way through your video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmill View Post
    Hello,
    I'm the creator of the spindle square, and I just joined the forums . If you have any comments or questions about the tool let me know

    I'll be posting more around here, the place is full of interesting designs!

    The problem with using 2 DI is that you have to be ABSOLUTELY square with your post. Not so just using 1 DI & rotating it......as you have found out!
    So all of your fancy milling was for naught!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_robotics View Post
    Right on man. Great work. I like it. I commented on your Youtube video because, you know, algorithm something something. That's new internet etiquette, isn't it?

    Why the two dial indicators? Did you make the chamfering at 1:30 run backwards as an Easter egg? Like a subtle This Old Tony ninja-chop for people that are paying attention?

    Also gotta clear your chips man! My butthole was puckered the whole way through your video.

    Many thanks!

    Yeah, the anti-chamfer operation was an homage to ToT. Hope he's doing we'll, I always enjoy his videos.

    Ugh, getting rid of the chips has been the bane of my existence. My air compressor is small, so it practically ends up working full time if I use it for air blast (annoying), and the machine is lacking an enclosure, so you can imagine how things may end... But I'll come up with something, I hope

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildwilly View Post
    The problem with using 2 DI is that you have to be ABSOLUTELY square with your post. Not so just using 1 DI & rotating it......as you have found out!
    So all of your fancy milling was for naught!
    Jeez, way to disregard someones work...

    If the tool's frame its tilted (and thus the indicators) with respect to the post, it'll result in one indicator tip being lower than the other, and one tip will be closer to the center with respect to the other. The up/down discrepancy is irrelevant, as the indicators get zeroed on the same point of the table. The inward/outward tip offset does create an error of the measured head tilt, but it is plenty small, say two tenths if the head is out of tram something like 0.005" over 5 inches, with an indicator tip to spindle axis distance variation of a massive 0.1", and said error decreases as you get closer to perpendicular.

    Besides, you can always do a final sweep looking at just one of the indicators to confirm everything is good if you so desire.

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