Tool box drone headache rack and lift out tray

Another of my few remaining tools and equipment I made long ago.
Back in the late 80's to early 90's we needed a headache rack on one of our trucks this was what I did
the headache rack was made with locking bars for the chains binders and below them there was a locking rack for straps. Since the truck had a long wheel base I mounted it on a drone which served as a platform to stand on for retrieving and replacing the load binding equipment as well as a mount for the tool box. in the tool box I made a tray which could be lifted up and clear of the box allowing clear access to the bottom of the boxAttachment 14194 Attachment 14195 Attachment 14196 Attachment 14197
Attachment 14198 Attachment 14199

Nice one Frank. I love the idea of those kinds of hinges but they are tough to lay out. Did you do it through experimentation or CAD? Or have an example laying around? Those kinds of hinges like on hoods like what I've seen Astro make are cool but a mystery to me.

C-bag that was done with a COC program, (chalk on concrete) a good 8 years before I even touched the keyboard of a computer and 10 years before I got my first computer with Solidworks 99 installed.
I've made lots of goofy stuff through out the years like one of my old welding rigs, that had hidden drop down slide out drawers, swing out tool boxes doors that unfolded to reveal service manuals. I carried 2 of the medium large Act bottles 3 large Oxygen 1 50 lb CO2 and a small Argon tank on it all were mounted and for the most part semi concealed my welder was a Hobart 400 amp Diesel with 300 amp badges, a Hobart Hefty CC/CV suitcase wire feeder, a 12000 lb winch with level wind rolls mounted under the bed and telescoping gin poles tucked away out of sight. I built my air compressor out of an IMT under hood V4 head on a 40 gallon Aluminum truck air start tank with a 2 cyl 16 HP electric start engine The truck was another unique thing And I will restate THING because I took an 81 F350 169" wheel base chassis doubled the frame from the front main cross-member back then wedged a 1160 Cat V8 225 HP turned up to 250 HP @ 750FT lb torque,by raising the cab 4 " and cutting-in a 4' doghouse in the firewall, with a 10 speed Road-ranger 610 coupled to a Spicer 48 2 speed mounted backwards the rear end was donated from a 30 ft motor home the cab was a 81 F250 super cab the whole THING was painted 1957 corvette yellow with a black bed when I had everything spooled out and opened up it was more like something out of the transformer movie UGLY as heck, but short of having a lathe and a mill unless you counted my Du-more versa mill there were enough tools and equipment to do just about anything in the way of machinery repairs

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Thanks Frank S! We've added your Headache Rack to our Storage and Organization category,
as well as to your builder page: Frank S's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-headache-rack-3"> <img src="/uploads/158889/homemade-headache-rack-3.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-headache-rack-3">Headache Rack</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/Frank+S">Frank S</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/toolbox'>toolbox</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Originally Posted by C-Bag

Nice one Frank. I love the idea of those kinds of hinges but they are tough to lay out. Did you do it through experimentation or CAD? Or have an example laying around? Those kinds of hinges like on hoods like what I've seen Astro make are cool but a mystery to me.

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Those are called 4-bar linkages, and while a CAD program is helpful, it's not necessary either. As Frank S. states, he uses Chaulk on Concrete. I like to draw on the steel table with a whiteboard marker, and then use cardboard and thin wood strips with stick pins to simulate the movement. The length of the arms, and position of the holes is critical to determining the actual movement and final location/orientation vs initial location/orientation.

The simplest 4-bar linkage is a parallelogram, gives fairly parallel movement within reason. There are specific names for some linkage sets, and has to do with the length of the arms and how they are arranged. You can read a lot more about them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-bar_linkage

Do a simple experiment, and cut out 4 cardboard strips about 1" wide, and 6" long. Anchor one of them to the table top, this is your base or ground link. Then place a link on each end, these are called Crank and Rocker, and use stick pins to make the pivot. Now add a top connecting link, using 2 more stick pins, and now you can hinge it back and forth. If you kept everything spaced evenly, you will have a parallelogram linkage.
Now shorten just one of the links by 1/2" and see how it affects it, start with the Crank. Now you have a crude model to test and learn, and determine what you want. Small changes can have big effects, so watch out!
I will often do this before I go to CAD, and then after I've modeled it in CAD as a final verification.

If you have an existing 4-bar linkage, based on the length of the links, equations will tell you what type it is, and predict the movement.

Many car hoods and trunk lid "hinges" are 4-bar linkages.

Hat's off to Frank S for making a nice example of this with his tool box tray, you can see that he put a dog-leg in one of the links so that it clears the top edge of the tool box.

Thanks Kent. I particularly like the cardboard/stickpin approach. Those are things I have readily available and should have been an obvious choice to model 4 bar linkage with. I often let the fog of war/just want to get 'er done get in the way of proper planning.

When I let Frank's 4 bar linkage just sit I could see the apparently simple parallelogram but the crook in the back pair threw me. What's really intriguing though is the way that crook raises the leading edge of the drawer to clear the side, but makes it end up level and the crook ends up being the stop. I'm always drawn to simple genius.

Where do you see the "crook" I can only see two of the pivots in the supplied pics.

If you look at pic #3 where arm goes over the edge of the box there's a bend in the bar link there. Just barely visible.

Kent gave a good description of how 4 bar links work.
One year when I was quite young I received, get this no less than 3 Gilbert Erector sets, with the advanced master construction and young engineer modeling options for Christmas. I must have spent a million hours building and remodeling the things I made with those sets.
The sets were in metal boxes about 30" long. Intrigued by the workings of a convertible top on car one of my uncles was rebuilding I set out to try and duplicate the accordion lattice framework using my tens of 1000's of parts on hand.
IN part much of my later projects were deeply rooted in my childhood construction projects that winter and for many following years as well.
I guess its now nearly 50 years since I last played with one of those sets but I can still to this day almost visualize exactly how many nuts, bolts ,beams, girders, pulleys shaft;s motors , belts and other various parts it took to construct some of my projects back then, but I might not remember what I ate for super 3 days ago

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Kent gave a good description of how 4 bar links work.
One year when I was quite young I received, get this no less than 3 Gilbert Erector sets, with the advanced master construction and young engineer modeling options for Christmas.

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No wonder, I only got a hand me down set of Lincoln Logs :(

Frank S and C-Bag,

I learned a lot from building with the Gilbert Erector sets back in the 1950's and early 60's. I would have several projects in progress on my bedroom floor. I enjoyed making cantilevered bridges and cranes and all gear driven either by a hand crank or motors. Wonderful ways to first image something and then build it with the erector sets. My mom refused to vacuum my room because she didn't want to vacuum up the nuts and bolts. I guess a few of these parts chewed up the vacuum rotary head so my room was off limits.

Thanks for the memories, Paul

During this move I have been forced to go mobile again. So I rigged my old 93 F350 crew cab to become a temporary welding rig
I have never liked pickup beds and have been looking for a good excuse to trash the one on my F350.
My wife tells me that I should get me another mechanics bed because I always carry so many tool boxes and other stuff there is no room for hauling anything in the bed, but I think that I would rather build me a flat bed with boxes built into the skirts of hte sides then make a slide on unit with welding equipment and other top boxes on it. That way I can slide it off onto a rolling chassis for use around the farm and still have a truck that I can use to pull a goose-neck trailer with

The question of modular bodies has always been one of my ongoing thought problems. Pickup beds are like you say a compromise. The bed is really too cosmetic and not functional enough with lots of wasted space. I never actually owned one, but I liked the fold down sides of the old VW PU with the tons of storage under the deck.

A flat bed with fold down sides and a couple of side boxes under sides would be mighty handy and functional but they have wasted space and the inconvenience of raising the bed to clear the rear wheels. Personally a regular pickup nowadays have such a long wheel base you need a country mile to turn the things around, so it cuts down on agility and makes them a pain for maneuvering a trailer. Even a gooseneck.

My dad drove a bobtail for most his sales job for 40yrs. But the last 5 yrs when they had to finally retire the Dodge they gave him a small gas Chevy tractor/5th wheel setup. He was skeptical, but ended up loving it because he could turn around like a car in a street because of the short wheel base on the tractor and could get in and out of anywhere to make his deliveries. And when the tractor needed service he didn't have to transfer his load like the bobtail. The deck of the 5th wheel was really low too so the whole thing worked much better ergonomically. Being vertically challenged, my other peeve is how high decks are too and how things always go shwangle when trying to get in and out of beds. I have an old utility trailer my father in law made for hauling his camper and it has drop axels on it with shortened leaf springs. Built like a tank and handy as a shirt pocket.

I think my old 1993 Ford F350 crewcab diesel has about the worst turn radius of any vehicle I've ever owned. One thing I have done to Fords in the past was to cut 1.75" off the steering stops then stretched the pitman arm by 0.750" that cut the turn radius by 4 ft need to do this to this one

Geez, how could that NOT have a bad turning radius? The front and rear bumpers are in different zip codes! But for some reason it seems there has been a discision to make turning radius bigger. To slow down the turning ratio? I wonder if astroracer could shed some light as he was a front end engineer for I believe GM. My biggest beef with my '15 Nissan Frontier is the slow steering. My '96 4x4 I could hug the curb and just be able to clear the other curb and pull a U'y. This new on isn't even a 4x4 and no way.

Is this some kind of safety issue? I have notice since about 2000 almost every wreck I see is a rollover. I never used to see that. Maybe every once in a blue moon on the freeway. But I'm seeing them in town, just saw one the other day. The speed limit was 35 I think. Come to think of it, they are all SUV. Don't even get me started on them.....

C-bag' my Ford which my wife named the Beast only has a 169" WB. My 81 that I built mostly from ground up had a 176" wb Like I said I had extended the Pittman arm length and shortened the stops with the big heavy cat V8 I went with 15/16" diameter rod for the coil springs with 1.75 more coils instead of the factory 7.8" diameter rod this worked out very well with the additional 800 lbs of the 10.4 liter engine plus the added weight of the 10 sp road ranger and the spicer 2 sp over the original 7.3 and automatic it had in it.
Your comment about the rollovers of SUV's can be summed up with 3 words impatient inexperienced drivers, almost all late model SUV's and particularly the taller ones have a bad over-steer problem. This can be attributed largely to the all tooooooo young automotive engineers with little to no racing background. Especially no dirt track, they try to design as near to "0" camber as possible for ease of handling at very low speeds. like getting into and out of parking spaces. If you will notice many of the SUV's that are involved in roll-overs have rack & pinion power steering this system is both good and very bad at the same time. the good is the entire system can be designed lighter and occupy much less space.. The bad is most of the road feel is eliminated when making a turn at speed there is zero change in the counteractive torque felt in the steering wheel another extremely bad thing was the invention of antilock braking systems. Suddenly after that junk became mandatory on all vehicles drivers no longer learned respect for following and stopping distances. ABS systems should actually take one more leap and become smart systems with higher and lower functionality in certain traffic, weather and road conditions.
I remember once when riding with a good friend of mine in his brand new at the time 89 BMW 735I the road was covered with several inches of snow with a layer of solid ice under that. we were rolling along about 70 MPH when he suddenly said you just have to see how well this new ABS works, then he folded his arms in his lap and stomped down as hard as he could on the brakes the car did make a safe very controlled stop in a most reasonable distance for the road conditions.
I told him that soon there would be a new set of young drivers to come along who would take the ABS for granted and not learn how to make a controlled stop in adverse road conditions then there would be more accidents causing more damage to the vehicles than ever before because the internal crumple zones would be so well designed that the whole rest of the vehicle would become little more than an energy absorbing buffer to protect the occupants at all cost.
To this day I still say that ALL learning drivers both young and not so young should never be allowed to get their permit until they have both driven a vehicle manufactured before 1950 and ride in the cab of a fully loaded Semi tractor and trailer with a 150,000 lb piece of over-sized equipment on the trailer for 10 hours in city freeway traffic, then they must pass a test of 200 random questions about their experiences in both vehicles before taking their road test.
OK! my tirade is complete.

I stand corrected on the wb, but I think your wife aptly named it. I've only driven one F350 that was one my boss's CPA had. We called him the Long Ranger because he would pull a 27' Airstream to Utah.....for the weekend. Something like 12hrs each direction, for "fun". It WAS a beast.

Interesting info on SUV steering geometry and ABS. I read early on how airbags too have made people have a false sense of security.

I started out in all pre '67 VW's and I knew the only real safety feature was between my ears. And my dad being a truck driver, it was all about being smooth. Use the clutch smooth, steering smooth braking smooth and head always on the swivel. Like when I rode my motorcycles, expect you are invisible to the other driver. I joked he wouldn't have cared if I ran into a tree as long as I did it smooth.

Getting a kid a SUV is just as silly and deadly as people used to buy their daughters VW bugs for their first car. I always wondered if they were trying to get rid of the kid? But somehow a SUV is perceived to be a truck but my PU is no way as top heavy as a SUV. I'm not sure but the WB looks shorter too, but I could be wrong.

One thing that becomes extremely critical when designing a steering system is a formula known as the Akerman Principal
However to carry this one step further would be to add in dissimilar camber angles when turning very difficult to do on McPherson strut suspensions but the old 4 link double "A" frame styles both the caster and camber could be designed to change as a vehicle negotiated a turn increasing the negative camber the tighter the wheel was turned also the body roll would change the camber between the inside and outside steer tires For this reason you may note that race cars and extreme off road competition enthusiast make use of a lot of adjustable Hiem joints, long 4 link suspensions and adjustable steering arm angles. My tool box with its 4 link system can actually be associated with a steering system although in the vertical plane
When I stretch a Semi from say 250" WB to say 300+" there are several things that I do over and above just hacking the frame in 2 and adding a section I have a special method that I developed 40 years ago for that as well and some day if I ever stretch another one I will share it there are at least 5 of my friends who stretch trucks regularly who use my method,
To insure the steer tires do not scrub I change the Pittman arms the drag links the steering arms on the spindle knuckles and in many cases change the angled shims that are between the axle beam and the springs The kingpin inclination angle to the spindle can also become critical more especially on rock climbing extreme 4 x 4's

http://www.rctek.com/technical/handl...principle.html

Thanks for the link. When I went to school for brake and alignment of course Akerman was mentioned. But the whole thing was not gone into as this was from the perspective of a repairman, not to redesign. It didn't take me long in the field to see there was a lot of what I'd call design flaws but I could do nothing about it. We were there to get the car back on the road for the least amount of cash possible. I learned more about actual steering geometry design when I was contemplating building a tadpole trike/bicycle from scratch.

And then when everybody started going to computer alignment racks you were reduced to a drone doing what a computer told you to adjust. And not one of the computer racks I used were trustworthy. All junk IMHO. Out of all the racks I used my favorite was an old(probably 50's or 60's) Bishman Porta-line portable rack. It was so simple and accurate I started getting the mech's and sales staff's cars at the GM and Benz shops doing their personal cars because they hated their 'puter racks. Wish I could of talked the dufus boss out of that rack when I left. But you needed a lift and I don't have one. But it was a very simple cool system. No lights, no power, done with prisms. Never found another around anywhere.

C-bag when I was stationed in Furth Germany we had a small track at Montieth Barracks VWs were the only things ran.
3 of us went together one winter and built our car in my motor-pool Rather as it turns out I think I did most of the build like the near perfectly match parting the little 1200CC to the point that it had the output of a 1500 duel carb, constructing the roll bar out of very lightweight chrome-molly tubing cutting nearly 120 lbs out of the safety cage alone. Every bit of the body was sanded by Fred and Dave to the point of being less than half the thickness of a stock Vdub. They ground and stripped away every ounce of superfluous metal
The VWs had a unique front suspension in that addition to having cross mounted torsion bars the control arms trailed vertically inline with the front to rear of the body the whole assembly is held on to the center frame by 4 bolts. I skewed the front end with the Right tire 1 1/2 inches in front of the left then twisted the control arms on the right to give it nearly 15° negative camber and the left side to have 10° positive camber then bent the spindles, down for the right and up for the left a few degrees . with the right torsion rod tightened to raise that side and the left loosened to lower the left. Doing this changed the castor to more positive on the right and slightly negative on the left The rules allowed for running 3 different sized tires but the steer tires had to be the same size.
When the season started in the Spring with Dave as the driver our car, his qualifying lap broke the all time track record in any class by 3 seconds. I don't think anyone in the association had ever actually sat down and calculated the effects of staging or re-cambering the front end like I had. It was my belief that if the front tires were properly adjusted and tweaked to fit the turns while maintaining minimal straight line rolling resistance that even though not powered they would actually help to pull the vehicle leaving the rear tires to just push By setting the car up to have as much inward lean as possible the poorly banked turns were not nearly as hazardous.

I hesitated to bring up Dr. Porsche's unique dual trailing arm suspension because I'm under the impression it was one of the few suspensions that didn't change geometry through its travel. I loved the suspension for its ruggedness and it's almost total lack of needed maintenance. It never broke, and I did some stupid stuff in my first car, a '57 Karmann Ghia. It had the 1100cc 36hp which I likened to an old Jeep. It had tiny valves and intake manifold which made it impossible to over rev and hurt that way. I wanted a TR6 so bad as my first car but my dad found the Ghia(bless his heart). It was the parts managers car at the local VW dealership. Mechanically it had all the running gear rebuilt and after several years of trying to blow it up i came to have grudging respect for it. I could not out run anybody on a straight away but there were no American, very few other cars that could hang with me in twisty roads. The old Ghia and the 356 Porsche were both made in the Karmann body works and were in the same parts book at the dealer.

I had friends who did what we called "round and round" on a local dirt race track. I think it was something like Sportsman class? Dunno, it was all "big iron" American and just not that interesting to me. I saw how they engineered a suspension to basically want to only go around a left turn as that's all that oval was. To me those crazy guys who did those rally's across Africa etc.....now that was some driving, but to each his own.

You don't mention what I always thought was what made Dr.Porshe's design a cornering machine was the fact it was rear engine. I can't remember who said it but it went something like " the difference between under steer and over steer is which end of the car goes through the fence when you don't make the turn". Once I got used to under steer I just hated fighting to get around a corner with a front engine car. It's one of the reasons I never owned a American car until we bought the Volt earlier this year. There is no denying they go down a straight road like gangbusters, but sooner or later you gotta turn, if not to dodge somebody. And that's when that feeling of being on rails from too much weight ,front engine along with too soft suspension w/body roll and detached feeling of the steering just made me feel like I was not really in control.

VW's like all of Dr. Porshe's designs were all about hp to weight. You mention the 1200, what we called the 40hp. That and my last VW, my '66 1300 bug, were my favorite engines for just get you down the road and last forever without dropping a valve. I was able to blueprint my 1300 because I was a "free agent" at automotive school and it was the only engine I drove from one rebuild till I went through it again at 120,000mi. Yeah, thats not a misprint. And it didn't blow, it wasn't even using oil, I just got scared. There was no way I'd ever drive a 1500 or 1600 that long without doing a valve job. Anything over 50k you were a ticking time bomb. It was just too hot here and they were being made to run too lean for smog.

You mention the 1500 dual carb, there was only one year, the '66 Type III. We had one, it was my mom's car and got it new in '66. I think it was rated 60hp but it was the "suitcase" engine w/the axial type cooling fan and heavy as hell and long rear end overhang making very rear end heavy and scary in a turn. So weight to hp wise it sucked compared to a loose old 40hp. And because of the throttle linkage and crappy Solex carbs they were almost impossible to sync and get to run good. I realized much later it was because the throttle shaft hole through the body would get wallowed out because of the huge return springs making them leak vacuum.

Those old 40's always ran so good right before something would finally let go. We used to have those come through the shop all the time because people thought they wanted a 1600 or 1650 so they would sell them a 1600 and we'd keep the 40hp for banging around as a shop vehicle.

It seems we are going further down another road with our mutual interests.It is hard for many to see any correlation of the tweaking of a suspension system on a car with the construction of a lift out tray on a tool box, but in many of my experiences I often associate very dissimilar items to things I may be working on at the time.
I agree the trailing parallel bar suspension that Dr Ferdinand Porsche developed was very low maintenance and about as close to a trouble free system ever for the time.
The way I made my tweaks to it though, made it several times more efficient for a short circle track with very short straightaways, by skewing the the whole assembly then twisting the bars in and out as previously mentioned I was able to take advantage of the natural castor changes that happen when the spindle moves up and down to cause a change in the camber. In effect I destroyed the original relative geometry of DR Porsche's design intentions. completely ruining it for use on a paved road.
Nearing the end of our 2nd season I grew bored with the whole scene. Our car had been protested numerous times although never faulted it became ever more expensive to prove the protests false.
The very last heat of the last race of the season our little 1200 had 2nd from pole in the 1600 unlimited class. Dave really stood on it through the first 3 laps then just as he was about to lap the 2nd place car in lap 4, he high sided off turn 2. after 3 end overs and 2 barrel rolls he somehow managed to re enter the track in the short back straightaway about the time the other cars were just finishing lap 5.
18 cars started 10 finished and he crossed in 5th place. No money not even the lead car money for the first 3 laps because of the 5th place flag. I pulled the engine then installed it in my 63 bug to drive for my deros vehicle after I shipped my Dodge pickup back, we sold the race car to the team at Merrell Barracks

Well I don't know about others Frank, but 4 bar linkage, trailing arm, wishbone, etc etc are all ways to articulate motion. There are so many different designs it's staggering. And even with the internet it still seems random luck to find what I'm hoping to find.

I'm just glad you posted the old box because who knows when something like that is going spark a synapse and hopefully I'll have enough brain cells to coallate it into a way to solve a problem that is just bugging me. You just never know where some old idea you saw is going to pop up outta the old gray jelly.

I enjoyed the jog down memory lanes. I had to abandon the old air cools in '87 when I couldn't get German parts anymore. I miss the simplicity and ruggedness with the sole means of getting me from A to B. No frills. Had '57, and '65 Ghia's. '65 & '66 camper buses. And '62 and '66bugs. The 66 I was only the second owner. If I could get real German parts I'd probably still have it.

C-bag there is an excellent site devoted to many of the things we discuss on these forums. I am no longer a member of the site though. It used to provide well written articles and complete downloadable books for free to members and subscribers to AISC ASME and ANSI . Since retiring from that field a few years ago I no longer contribute to those organisations, if I wanted any info from this site I would now have to pay to play like anyone else. For all I know they may not even offer the freebie perks anymore, or they may have never offered them I was a member of so many things all paid by the company I was with I never knew I was a member of. The parent org. behind it is McGraw Hill Education.
https://accessengineeringlibrary.com...0071704427ch05

Thanks for the link Frank. indeed it is pay to play. But it's a tantalizing collection for sure. My worry is about signing up for something that I might not get a chance to use very much. Maybe there's a hard bound copy somewhere.

I posted this a while back in another forum but when I'm looking for inspiration I go here:

507 Mechanical Movements

Yep that's a classic 507 Mechanical Movements: Mechanisms and Devices BY Henry T Brown I checked that one out of the library while in middle school. Haven't thought of it in years actually had to look up the author though, many things I have read or studied have become lost in my muddled brain. Too bad we can't simply do a disk cleanup then defrag our brains like our hard drives.
Seemingly innocuous threads such as this one and others help though since they serve to bring old memories for the forefront. For a while in Kuwait, 3 of the universities would send both graduate and undergraduate engineer students to the company I was with for 6 months to a year to gain real world experiences prior to completion of their studies. Sooner or later most wound up sitting near my desk asking countless questions about how's and why's of some of my designs. Usually by the end of their stay they either had a fair Idea of the why's or were completely stumped. As to the how's. Well lets just say that in my opinion most of them would never be able to design a 3 legged bar stool that would stand on it's own without help.

C bag & Frank S...
Since the VW front suspension is basically a 4-bar linkage, I'd say this discussion was right on topic! Plus highly interesting and educational, so thanks for sharing the info. Particularly interesting since I also have a '67 VW Beetle that will be a project at some point.

'67 Bug was one of my favs because it was the first year of the 12v. Nice bright headlights, amazing. '66 & '67 had the same seats, lo back. For some stupid reason folks took out those and put the horrible high back seats in them. Along with those were very popular to put another horrible thing, Baja kits. So very few intact '67's exsist here. I have a buddy who just bought a restored one down in LA for I think he said something like over $20k. I've not seen it live yet, but the pics all look perfect. He wanted it because that was his first car in high school. Its hard to believe a car that sold for $2,300 new is worth that much....and one I could find all day long for $800 or $900 with LO miles when in school.

I wish you good luck with your restoration Kent.