I own my own woodworking and CNC business and glue up a lot of panels. I have tried different ways but always end up with a lot of sanding.
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I own my own woodworking and CNC business and glue up a lot of panels. I have tried different ways but always end up with a lot of sanding.
Would you please describe the technique(s) you use currently? What exactly requires sanding? The boards don't line up? My low tech approach is to ensure the boards are all the same thickness. I make sure they touch the clamp all along its length to prevent cupping. I also clamp the outer edges of the boards to align them. If need be, I will run biscuits to align them also (I used this technique on 1-1/2" x 22" x 10' boards for a media center). There are double sided clamps which squeeze edgewise and lengthwise and align the boards as well. There is also floor mounted clamping system which allows you to stack the boards edgewise and clamp them along the length and width of the boards. I don't use dowels anymore as they are inclined to be misaligned. Often, especially with cutting boards, table tops and those previously mention 10' pieces, I will take them to a neighbor's shop with a width belt sander and pay him to sand them down to a uniform and flat surface. There is sanding, but only finish sanding.
I run the narrow panels through the planer. For wider I glue the planed narrow panels together and deal with fewer joints !
I have a 12" planer which limits the width of my glued up panels. I also prefer the wide belt sander over a planer because there is no tear out.
I want to thank everyone for their responses.
I only edge glue pieces of the same thickness. The sanding that I spoke of comes from partial ridges coming from the glue line. I line them up, I use plenty of glue but they seem to always slip somewhere.
After drying I just take them to the sanding table and smooth out the joints.
Not every glue up ends this way but enough for me to want a better way.
I do not want to use dowels or biscuits.
The reason I joined and used this forum is that I wondered if anyone had a plan, or know where to buy, one of those units that are attached to the wall for edge glueing. It looks to me like it is the best way to control all the boards at one time.
I use panels for furniture I make and also for signs and such on my CNC.
I also hate to waste lumber so I usually edge glue smaller boards to make panels and small signs on the CNC.
Hi,
Just a little info from a retired wood worker and large (4foot by 12 foot) CNC operator. The best you can do is to make sure you reverse annual growth rings up and down. that will minimize the your cupping. You will never get rid of ridges from gluing because the moisture in the glue will swell the edges. Commercial 4 ft. wide surface belt sanders are on the market. it is the best way to go if you are talking lots of large glue ups. If your CNC is large enough you would save time and money by just running a pass on the ridges to make them as close to finish size as you can to cut down on wear on large belts. You have options but more info on sizes you deal with and machine capability would allow us to give more pertinent information.
Thank you BigMike71
I thank you for your reply.
I was getting very close to retirement with a large chemical company when they pulled operations from this area.
I guess you can say, I kinda went to my lifetime love of woodworking to try to make a living. Hasn't been easy but still plugging away.
I do watch my growth rings closely and about everything I can to get it right but still not where I want to be with this.
I use 95% local hardwoods that I buy from local sources rough. I then plane down to sizes I need. Planer is only 15" maximum width which makes most glue-ups out of the question for planing to finish after glue up.
Most of my glue ups are for sides and backs of finish cabinetry, dressers and such but I also do smaller glue ups for some signs and such on my CNC.
I do have a 4x8 CNC and will most definitely try your suggestions.
Just for reference, I also do a lot of signmaking and murals with the CNC but using sign foams.
I try to use my CNC as much as possible since I love working with it. The time savings and amazing things it can do also keep me near it.
Again, thank you so much!
Hi, the suggestions above cover most of the ground. I accept that I will have to smooth the edges so I make sure my design and fabrication allows me to have one good face. The hidden face just needs to be functional i.e. hold a frame or a rail. I also use wafers registered to the good face to help align.
Not knowing your CNC or its power but if you contact a bit supplier you should be able to get a pretty large bit for your machine and routing (planning with it) the rough side enough to lay flat and steady then flip the panel and the same then one or two passes on a good sander should do your job.
I cut plywood, Plexiglas, Corian tops and designs with inlays and sink cut outs, aluminum, and some stainless steel. We where still using auto cad 14 made for windows 95 in XP computers. Companies will pay very lucrative for curve and complicated layouts being cut on a CNC. I know the company got over $200 and hour for the machine and myself to cut parts. I worked at a name brand luxury coach company and cut just about everything inside those multimillion dollar toys that had curves. I would love to talk to you some time and talk about the CNC. The factory closed on me also when I was 63 and no work around here at that time so I took a big cut in SS by going on at that age.
Good luck and hope I helped you a little with your question.
I would suggest using Bessey or Jet parallel clamps....rotate the orientation of the clamps (under over under over ) so that the pressure applied is even across the panel...this will minimize creep and slippage and allow for more even glue ups.....the glue line can be addressed with a sharp card scraper that can easily remove glue excess and leaves a smooth finish....Good luckQuote:
Originally Posted by RODaknee6
The clamps of the type mentioned are available from Amazon as well as many other suppliers -- search Plano Clamps -- there may be other makes.
To secure initial alignment, the most apt approach for this forum is to use a traditional method and make you own -- a few flat (or VERY slightly bowed) cross cauls pressing on the faces of the planks and tightened alternately with the main clamps which draw the planks together thus keeping the joint aligned while compressing the glue line. Pads between the cross-cauls and the joint are another possibility.
If the glue causes swelling along the joint, sanding this flat may leave a dip after the timber dries out, not ideal for reputation. Options: (1) leave the glued-up board to dry before use, (2) use less glue (there should be no question of gap-filling), (3) use a non-aqueous glue. Modern glues are very varied, you might want to consider matters such as long-term creep, which could take the joints out of alignment after several years.
On the "use less glue" point you will find lengthy discussions online about "glue starved" joints, clamping pressure, etc. My own take is that if you notice obvious glue-related swelling the joints are too wet; for a well made edge joint very little glue should be necessary, and no feasible amount of clamping pressure would suffice to force all the glue out. You might also consider rubbed joints with hide glue, which will enable you (with practice) to use very little glue, and align the joint before it goes off. No clamps needed at all.
I am an amateur, so have no experience trying to make a living at this, but I gather many professional makers use alignment aids such as biscuits not for strength, but to ensure speedy and accurate gluing. Time is money (well, you know that don't you) :-) , so perhaps reconsider biscuits?
The one tool I have not seen mentioned is a simple hand plane. Ideal for trimming any bumps which are too big for the scraper.
Thank you for your reply.
Each of the suggestions you give I have used with some good results.
I am mainly after the name of the clamps and you give it here so I thank you again.
I may have to do this for a living but I am the first to confess that I have much yet to learn and I thank you for your advice !
If boards are slipping up and down, you need c-clamps and deep reach c-clamps. If your panel is too large for that then you may have to move to a fix you don't want. But even clamping the ends together with c-clamps goes a long way.
If you let the glue tack up for a couple of minutes, The slippage will be minimal. As far as sanding, it never goes away.
ok? i'd make sure to have the jointed edges done , then to make wider panels, make you own panel clamps to align the panels alternating of which side the clamps are on bottom - top - bottom alternating until you have enough clamps for the length of panel. the biscuit joint is good .
Something not yet mentioned is using a laminate trimmer with a flush trim bit - these have a bearing that runs on the surface of the panel while the cutter trims high spots
Ken
Several have mentioned the use of big Bessey and Jet clamps though I didn't see anyone suggesting using cauls across the surface to keep the boards aligned. Sanding/scraping/planing are necessary if for no other reason than humidity changes and how the wood responds to the glue used. If you do choose to use cauls, try them with a very slight curve so that they don't bow at the edges of the glue-up under clamp pressure. Good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by RODaknee6
I use a combination of clamps and biscuits. I have standard pipe clamps to compress the joints and use parallel clamps to maintain flatness of the panels. Biscuits are used to align and strengthen the joints as I clamp them up. I don't think there is a way to escape all the sanding. Parallel clamps on ends and equally spaced in middle.I have some from ShopSmith that clamp in both directions and work great. Also made some out of perforated angle iron, bolts and wing nuts that work great for the ends.
I agree with this caul method. Not only is this the low cost option, but the cauls can be made as large as you need them. A larger caul will need more curvature to be effective. The amount of curvature depends on the length and bending strength of the caul wood. Some more info can be found here (How to Make Cambered Cauls - FineWoodworking) and other sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron0641