Cylinder square

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Oct 17, 2018, 11:23 AM
olderdan

4 Attachment(s)

Cylinder square

I have never owned a cylinder square and at the price of commercial ones I decided to have a go at making one, at work we used to make our own for the shop table although they were case hardened and ground and strangely rarely used, when the factory closed I could have had one for the asking.
I have a number of old squares which I have been having doubts with and so need need checking apart from its use for machined items.
It is not that difficult to make your own cylinder square for home use say 2" x 5", accurate turning and facing between dead centres with a lapped & polished finish would suffice. With careful use and a descent steel (mine is some pre hardened mystery steel) this is not a high wear item, just a reference point. The only wear would be on the faces which could be refaced if need be.
I had to step back from the chrome like finish I had produced as the reflective effect made it difficult to use. With a 2-3 mike it is within 2 tenths on dia end for end, good enough for me.
Well after checking all my squares they are NBG so they will go to my carpentry box and I will buy a couple of good quality ones, at least I now know for sure.
Attachment 26073 Attachment 26074 Attachment 26075
Oct 17, 2018, 05:06 PM
wizard69

Quote:

Originally Posted by olderdan

I have never owned a cylinder square and at the price of commercial ones I decided to have a go at making one, at work we used to make our own for the shop table although they were case hardened and ground and strangely rarely used, when the factory closed I could have had one for the asking.

Sometimes it is hard to turn down these opportunities to get free stuff and other times you don't want to feel like a pack rat. Learn from your mistakes and take everything allowed and will fit in the car/truck.

Quote:

I have a number of old squares which I have been having doubts with and so need need checking apart from its use for machined items.
It is not that difficult to make your own cylinder square for home use say 2" x 5", accurate turning and facing between dead centres with a lapped & polished finish would suffice. With careful use and a descent steel (mine is some pre hardened mystery steel) this is not a high wear item, just a reference point. The only wear would be on the faces which could be refaced if need be.
I had to step back from the chrome like finish I had produced as the reflective effect made it difficult to use. With a 2-3 mike it is within 2 tenths on dia end for end, good enough for me.
Well after checking all my squares they are NBG so they will go to my carpentry box and I will buy a couple of good quality ones, at least I now know for sure.

This is something I learned the hard way when just a young guy working in my fathers garage. I had a little wood working project that just wouldn't go together right I finally discovered that the cheap department store square I had was grossly out. Wasted a bit of material due to that tool not being up to spec. After getting some cash together I went out and bought a good Starret square. To this day I will not trust a square I don't own. Fortunately they are easy to check.

By the way, a square like this, assuming it is hardened, would be worth having it professionally ground. Make it out of A2 to reduce corrosion and you will have a primary reference tool. Some tools are worth investing a little extra money in. Actually a lined casket for the square would be a fitting place to put it when not in use.
Oct 17, 2018, 05:59 PM
metric_taper

Olderdan, what is the process to lapp a cylinder held between centers? I see a rectangular bar in the photo on the protective newspaper.
Oct 17, 2018, 08:01 PM
neilbourjaily

Am I an apostate if my cylinder square is a Caterpillar connecting rod pin?
Oct 18, 2018, 06:09 AM
DIYer


Thanks olderdan! We've added your Cylinder Square to our Measuring and Marking category,
as well as to your builder page: olderdan's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-cylinder-square-2"> <img src="/uploads/218540/homemade-cylinder-square-2.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-cylinder-square-2">Cylinder Square</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/olderdan">olderdan</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/square'>square</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
Oct 18, 2018, 09:17 AM
olderdan

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizard69

Sometimes it is hard to turn down these opportunities to get free stuff and other times you don't want to feel like a pack rat. Learn from your mistakes and take everything allowed and will fit in the car/truck.

This is something I learned the hard way when just a young guy working in my fathers garage. I had a little wood working project that just wouldn't go together right I finally discovered that the cheap department store square I had was grossly out. Wasted a bit of material due to that tool not being up to spec. After getting some cash together I went out and bought a good Starret square. To this day I will not trust a square I don't own. Fortunately they are easy to check.

By the way, a square like this, assuming it is hardened, would be worth having it professionally ground. Make it out of A2 to reduce corrosion and you will have a primary reference tool. Some tools are worth investing a little extra money in. Actually a lined casket for the square would be a fitting place to put it when not in use.

Your first comment is so true.
The square will live where I can see it, I have put oiled things like that in dedicated boxes only to find they have rusted (very damp environment here).
I think the next lined casket will probably be for me.
Oct 18, 2018, 09:29 AM
olderdan

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

Olderdan, what is the process to lapp a cylinder held between centers? I see a rectangular bar in the photo on the protective newspaper.

You are talking about my new secret weapon for lapping and polishing, I will show it in a new post. BTW what looks like a rectangular bar is just a strip of impregnated leather for final polishing.
Oct 18, 2018, 09:35 AM
olderdan

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilbourjaily

Am I an apostate if my cylinder square is a Caterpillar connecting rod pin?

Not at all, it sounds like a very good idea if one can find one.
Oct 19, 2018, 08:51 PM
Toolmaker51

1 Attachment(s)

Cylinder squares are a convenience, occasional necessity. I'll shamefully admit mine are commercial. But here are a couple unfamiliar to some HMT readers. And best of all, one's not difficult DIY project.
Attachment 26103

Other materials can be used, for a basic cylinder square. Heavy wall tubing, one end recessed with a plug welded shut can be re-faced on a lathe. Handled with care, it's not hardened state is not too much handicap.
Engine piston wrist pins; typical in diesel engines, are dimensionally stable material. Even used can be in good condition. If you are so equipped, regrinding is possible.
Just consider squareness and as true a cylinder possible are the requirements.
Oct 20, 2018, 01:45 AM
metric_taper

I'm curious how you got that mirror finish.
As you indicated the leather strap is charged, you're probably using it like a strip of emery cloth sand paper.
So I'm interested in your describing this process, and what lapping grit is needed to get that mirror finish.
Thanks Olderdan.
Oct 21, 2018, 10:04 AM
olderdan

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

I'm curious how you got that mirror finish.
As you indicated the leather strap is charged, you're probably using it like a strip of emery cloth sand paper.
So I'm interested in your describing this process, and what lapping grit is needed to get that mirror finish.
Thanks Olderdan.

The polishing process is working down to finer medium in stages maybe 4 or 5 steps depending on what you are starting from to the finish desired, I was using diamond paste. 45 down to 3 Microns The method is to lap in the opposite direction to the marks you need to remove, this tool does that while preserving roundness as you can see in first stage in my cyl square post.
Jan 22, 2019, 04:49 PM
tonyfoale

My cylinder is the tube out of the tailstock of a large lathe. It is hardened and ground all over, the end was dead square to the axis and it had no wear on it and was parallel to close limits. I never slide it, I always pick it up to move it. Along with a height gauge it always sits on my surface plate.
Jan 22, 2019, 06:47 PM
camcompco

Quote:

Originally Posted by metric_taper

I'm curious how you got that mirror finish.
As you indicated the leather strap is charged, you're probably using it like a strip of emery cloth sand paper.
So I'm interested in your describing this process, and what lapping grit is needed to get that mirror finish.
Thanks Olderdan.

I actually create OD lapping tools to do mine. A round stock, bored to a few thou over the OD of the CS, drill a circular hole pattern around the outside like this:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...48294368376093

use finner and finer abrasives, 5k-10k grit stuff at the end, and boom, mirror finish
Jan 22, 2019, 07:04 PM
tooly

Quote:

Originally Posted by olderdan

Your first comment is so true.
The square will live where I can see it, I have put oiled things like that in dedicated boxes only to find they have rusted (very damp environment here).
I think the next lined casket will probably be for me.

I do not know which boxes you are referring to but if card board I always soak them in heavy oil or floor wax mixed with kerro, it does a fairly good job,
Jan 24, 2019, 01:47 AM
tonyfoale

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfoale

My cylinder is the tube out of the tailstock of a large lathe. It is hardened and ground all over, the end was dead square to the axis and it had no wear on it and was parallel to close limits. I never slide it, I always pick it up to move it. Along with a height gauge it always sits on my surface plate.

Here is a pic.

Attachment 27710 Click thumbnail for full size image.
Feb 6, 2021, 12:09 AM
owen moore

I am in agreement with neilbourfaily that a large wrist pin (gudgeon pin in the UK) makes an excellent cylinder square if the ends are faced properly. It is probably more accurate than anyone needs in a home workshop.
Feb 6, 2021, 07:25 AM
Crusty

1 Attachment(s)

A black oxide conversion of the surface will be uniform in thickness, easier to see against and will hold oil so that the square doesn't rust.

I wanted one but couldn't afford one and I've since found that using an affordable 2-4-6 block has done everything that I wanted a cylindrical square to do, plus they're useful for cribbing things on the mill table. When I get around to it I intend to black oxidize the surfaces of these blocks.

Attachment 38302
Feb 6, 2021, 08:49 AM
DIYSwede

Tony Foale's eminent Cylinder Square How-To thread is here:
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...ailstock-77075
Feb 6, 2021, 09:12 AM
tonyfoale

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIYSwede

Tony Foale's eminent Cylinder Square How-To thread is here:
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...ailstock-77075

This gives an idea how one might go about lapping a cylinder, which some people have asked about. Remember this was my way and not the only way.