Die Filer

For sometime I've been considering the construction of a Die Filer and was aware of the kits offered for finishing and assembly. As an alternative, I decided to search for an existing piece of equipment that met the necessary alternate movement to accomplish the function. I felt that a Scroll Saw for plain blades, would fit the bill and bought a second hand never used 16" Delta cast iron model for the purpose. The actual file used in the conversion was a section of a 3/8" wide x 3" long flat mini file bonded to a piece of CRS stock 3/8" wide x 6" long to correspond with the dimensions of the blades used in the saw. Both ends of the file backing were drilled for a 5 mm Allen screw to attach to the arms and the polished surface of the bar roughed up by using the method indicated in a recent article in this blog, to make possible the bonding of the epoxy cement to both pieces. The file itself needing no preparation given its toothed surface. After 24 hrs. curing period the parts were solidly glued together. I ordered a single wheel knurl holder for this purpose which I feel will do an even better job of providing a good surface for the epoxy to fill and stick.
I will report on this issue when completed.
To allow side cutting on one side only, I allowed one edge of the file to slightly protrude out of the bar on one side and belt sanded the other side smooth to prevent cutting against a shoulder if needed.
If required, the table can be tilted up to 45 degrees and a built-in air bellows, provides air to blow the filings away from the table during operation. No bad, no bad at all. Running of the machine appears to be a little frantic, but having no experience with neither scroll saws or die filers I figure that is normal and should not affect the operation or life of the file section which can always be replaced easily and cheaply.
It should be noted, that the contraption intended use is for finishing and slight removal of stock;other means for material removal should be used prior to the use of the filer. This saw is single speed only.
Attachment 9978
Attachment 9979
Normal or regular use of the saw only requires changing the file by a saw blade in the usual manner.
Mission accomplished I say.

Since the post was originally presented in these pages, some improvements and changes to the original design, have taken place.
First of all the use of a backing plate is completely unnecessary, since the length of the flat part of the files used, allows direct clamping by 4mm Allen socket screws to the working arms of the saw. Simply drill the file at both ends with a 4mm carbide drill. Second, the saw itself can be converted to direct metal cutting, by replacing the tiny scroll saw blades, with Bosch Swiss made metal cutting jig saw blades. Those blades work at regular jig saw speed, will go through anything and last a long time at their job.
Using any other brand is useless when compared to the quality of those blades. They are available at Home Depot, Ebay or anywhere else. The saw blades can be attached in the same manner as the files. There you have it, a filing machine with a generous size tilting table, and a metal cutting saw for many small or medium sized pieces of any metal. See picture of tap drilled with carbide bit.
Attachment 25170

What great idea! I've been contemplating something like this too but I was thinking of hand held scroll saw or sawzall, but this is way superior. And I love the holder for the end of the file. Now if it just had a speed control it would be perfect.

Thanks for posting this, it should be in the homemade tools or one of the other sub forums as its not in progress, it's done! Good job!

Thank you for your comments C-Bag. I recently added a Solid State Speed Control to my Edge Trimmer shown in my pages and works OK. However, I understand that a scroll saw motor is not compatible with such a device. If it was, I still have another controller which I could use. However given the light use of the tool (finishing) I don't think that it makes that much of a difference.

I understand. I'm in the slower is better crowd. If my tools have a slower setting especially for reciprocating tools I run them slower than most folks probably. Your description of it being kind of frantic in use describes how I feel about most power tools at full tilt and I'm not a noob to power tools. I've been using them for 50+yrs. But I learned someplace early on, maybe in shop in school ,if I'm not a bit scared about what I'm doing I've lost my respect for what's going on. I know too many guys in the trades who are missing body parts because they got complacent. It would be a disaster for me to lose a finger or an eye.

Anyway, I'm now on the lookout for a scroll/jig saw to convert to a filer. I also would rather mod than build from scratch :)

I share your views completely C-Bag and by the way I'm also an old timer. Frantic in my view reflects my opinion that I would run the machine slower if I could, however as I mentioned, I have not experience with scroll saws.I figure that since the present speed of this machine is the original as designed so, "normal" for it. Plus remember if you read my description carefully, I am not holding the file by squeezing it between the nut and arm like a scrolling blade, but through a hole in the bar held by an Allen socket screw to both arms.
Make sure that you choose one for "plain" saw blades and not "pin" type.

Thanks for the tip about blade and pin mounts. Thats just the kind of noob thing I wouldn't be aware of. I don't mean to belabor my point, but to me all machines for wood run at a frantic pace. That's why I did a double reduction on the 14" bandsaw I converted to metal. From 3,000 fpm to 110 is quite a drop :)

It would be very instructive if you could take some pix of how you mounted the files. And are you using like jeweler files? Or the little Dremel files? I have a couple kits of those and they are my go to for detail work like cleaning up small tight welds.

I'd never even thought about a filer until I found one on here in a past post. It was a scratch build. If I remember I think it ran fairly slowly. I'd still want to run this slowly and with more pressure than fast and light. But I guess I'd want see which one worked for what I'd do.

Remember C-Bag that in my pages I show a method that I used to make the surface of the CRS plate (3/8" wide x 1/8" Thick x 6" long) rough enough for the epoxy to stick; the file side obviously does not need any preparation. You have to read my article carefully; but anyway I'll remove the plate/file bonded assembly, and take a picture for your benefit and others'.
My advice to you concerning spm (strokes per minute) is that first you put everything together, try it, and then make a decision as to whether to reduce the speed or not. I repeat to you, that this is a "finishing tool" to accomplish fit, finish or both, but not a stock removal tool, that should be done prior to using the filer by other means. I forgot to mention in my article, that to file inside a slot or cavity, all you have to do, is to loosen both screws and remove one to slip the file through the hole.

Jorge

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Thanks scrdmgl! We've added your Die Filer to our Metalworking category,
as well as to your builder page: scrdmgl's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/die-filer-3"> <img src="/uploads/148491/die-filer-3.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/die-filer-3">Die Filer</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/scrdmgl">scrdmgl</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/scroll-saw'>scroll saw</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/die-filer'>die filer</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Thank you Jorge and C-Bag for the discussions and new ideas.

Jorge, I like your design reusing the scroll saw with a wide table for supporting all types of parts. I have been thinking about making a die filer every since seeing the one by rossbotics (Doug Ross) posting on HMT. Your design adds another way to do this and a great idea.

Regards, Paul

What great idea !Thanks for posting

Commercial die-filers run slow, about 40-60 strokes per minute. As they use rigid files cutting on the down stroke, you get a good and very controllable rate of removal; often splitting scribed layout lines for a die. The frantic cutting mentioned isn't so noticeable in lower density materials.
While a speed control won't operate the scroll saw motor, I'll bet a change of sheave diameters [even stepped] can do the trick. Or, how about a sewing machine motor?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

Commercial die-filers run slow, about 40-60 strokes per minute. As they use rigid files cutting on the down stroke, you get a good and very controllable rate of removal; often splitting scribed layout lines for a die. The frantic cutting mentioned isn't so noticeable in lower density materials.
While a speed control won't operate the scroll saw motor, I'll bet a change of sheave diameters [even stepped] can do the trick. Or, how about a sewing machine motor?

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Hi Toolmaker:
My version of a Die Filer was a proof of concept exercise that is basically sound in unmodified form. The reason for that, is that is meant for following a scribed line with precision and ease of use. Real Die Filers, are unfortunately not in fashion anymore, being replaced by other methods for that purpose. I haven't posted a follow up article about it, but I found a way to use a model file as shown in my original design directly attached to the arms of the saw. After finding an adequate file within the required length, the flat end of it can be drilled with a carbide drill of the required size for the attaching screw, and since the flat part of the file is shorter than the needed stroke length, the round file handle can be held by a simple fabricated adapter obviating the two piece construction of the file+backing plate. Despite the relatively high speed cycle, the forces involved in the filing action are minimal, specially for finishing purposes,. However, your suggestion of a speed controllable sewing machine motor, might prove to be the easiest ticket to the high stroke speed. I'll start a web search of a motor/speed controller unit, to see what's available and the cost of it.
As an added bit of info, I'm constantly buying stuff on the web and found that if you are not pressed for time, buying directly from China or other such place that offers what you need, is the best option. Local suppliers will sell you the same product at two or more times the price offered by this method, very often with free shipping. After all, even the bread that we eat in Canada is made in freaking China, well, almost. hahaha
If you wish, we can correspond by email, my address is scrdmgl@gmail.com

Regards

Jorge

What is the amplitude of the blade movement please?

re: Amplitude of die filers.
My commercial file is 3/4" of travel, and have worked dies 2" thick. Unless very fine cut files are used, that is excessive for thin work; does more sawing than filing. I made a brass filigree once, encountering a lot of trouble...
If I was to build a filer, adjustable stroke is the most important feature.
Motor speed is next, then a tilting table. Tilt is needed for inlay work and back clearance on dies.

If your scroll saw has a motor that is separated from the "up and down" blade gearbox it may be practical to use an electric drill, especially variable speed to drive it. You may have to contrive a driveshaft that can be tightened in the drill chuck to hold the pulley or coupling as well as a separate start/stop switch. The beauty of this is that used corded electric drills are dirt cheap or you can buy a cheap import like Harbor Freight. A bolt with the head cut off can serve this shaft adapter function. A solid mount for an electric hand drill is best cobbled up out of wood and a couple of long screw clamps being careful to not block the air cooling openings on the drill body. Ed Weldon

Scroll saws are the oft-overlooked stepchildren of woodworking tools, and pretty cheap if you are patient. I found mine (Delta adjustable speed) for $20 and an hour drive after about a month of looking by setting up a local search on Craigslist and Ebay.

Besides the Die Filer Conversion, these scroll saws can run Bosch 3 5/8" Jig Saw metal cutting blades using the same basic mods shown in my filer conversion. They're Swiss made and will go through anything and last a long time. They are sold by Home Depot and others.