drone takedown tools: beam guns and eagles

**Jon** · Sep 17, 2016, 11:18 AM

Ever been outside on your private property, looked up, and saw a drone flying over your head and recording you? These drone flights are illegal, but my personal experience has been that quoting FAA guidelines to an overhead drone has no effect.

The common response here is "shotgun", and there are plenty of stories and videos on the net documenting that exact interaction. Though tempting, it's often not feasible to discharge a shotgun in such a situation.

Fortunately, there are some newer countermeasures. What's fascinating about them is that the two leading technologies for drone takedown could not be more different!

One is a a directed energy weapon fired at the drone. I would be extremely skeptical of this video were the manufacturer not Battelle, the world's largest nonprofit research and development group (more). Here's a drone takedown video of their DroneDefender beam gun jamming system:

The other method involves trained birds of prey, and it's currently being used by the Dutch National Police. Here's a video from Guard from Above, a Dutch company training birds of prey for drone takedown:

**PJs** · Sep 26, 2016, 11:20 AM

Very Interesting Jon! Battelle, now there is some deep pockets of wizardry. Helped develop a unique cryo-chiller back in the day for some of their biolabs.

This whole idea of drones has taken some ominous directions and now everyone and there brother can buy a decent one for <$1k. Personally I kind of like the idea of a shotgun but it has it's limits as you say but there is a finality to it. The idea of this gun is actually pretty simple imho. Most kids nowadays have the wherewithal to put something like this together...but they are the ones flying them, typically. Like the kid that mounted a gun to one. Not an unchallenging task but doable. The nefarious ones operating them is breeding the fear and probably won't be long before law enforcement has them in great numbers which is just another topic of escalation of black/white hats...never ending.

I watched your train derailment post this morning and the first thing I thought, after being captivated by the automated rail building gif (train building it's own track), was that here we are designing and build these wonderful tools to benefit humankind only to tear them apart because of some political struggle gone awry. This drone, mini drone and micro drone stuff will go the same way imho...and still affects it's human inventors in so many ways. UPS has a program now and I think Amazon too, to deliver packages to high density populaces, which in it self may be a good thing eco wise, and maybe a prudent benefit. However that would tie it to infrastructure. Huuuhm...a Battelle disruptor...

Honestly I wish the eagle didn't have to waste his time on catching drones. Lot of stuff on YT about big birds snagging them...maybe they think they are irritating buzzing rats with wings.

Omar Bradley comes to mind...."If we continue to develop our technology with out wisdom and prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner." And to top it off...Lily Tomlin, "The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you’re still a rat."

: Hattip: ~PJ

**Jon** · Sep 26, 2016, 02:07 PM

I think we might end up with basic inexpensive household anti-drone devices that attach to a roof or exterior wall. Right now, there are two FAA-issued legal distinctions surrounding drones: registration (any remotely-piloted aircraft flown outdoors and weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds must be registered), and line-of-sight (if you remotely pilot an aircraft out of your line of sight, as opposed to, say a model airplane, you need additional training and certification as a drone pilot). These both make sense, and we'll see how they play out.

There is a great irony surrounding the dual creation and destruction of technology inspired by warfare. On the one hand, we build stuff to destroy stuff. On the other hand, we are still reliant on conflict to motivate creation and advancement of technology. Right now I'm working on a great Tool Talk post involving World War I, World War II, The Cold War, aviation, engineering history, and lots of old black-and-white photos of machinery. The biggest theme is the interplay between metalforming and warmaking. Working title: "The Largest Tool in the World".

**Toolmaker51** · Sep 26, 2016, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jon

I'm working on a great Tool Talk post involving World War I, World War II, The Cold War, aviation, engineering history, and lots of old black-and-white photos of machinery. The biggest theme is the interplay between metalforming and warmaking. Working title: "The Largest Tool in the World".

I'd better sit down now, to attend pursuit a modicum of relaxation whist I may, that's my soapbox too!

"Largest Tool" interests me on several levels. Especially potential 'size' of equipment generating it.
"biggest tool" I've already begun to forget about; not sure but dufus #1 or #2 are prime candidates!

**C-Bag** · Sep 26, 2016, 10:43 PM

I wondered how long it would be before drones were legislated into oblivion for all except the gubment to use. The whole thing for me is such a double edged sword....it has such promise for good but it's quickly going the "Sky Net" route with summary executions in far off lands without much due process. Could it be plausible deniability when they program a drone to do a mission autonomously and it kills the "wrong" persons? As usual it's hard to get the real facts also about how many equipment failures there are too.

Meanwhile every military in the world is getting their own drone fleets. Did you see the Russian drone heavy tank they fielded not to long ago? The whole drone and high altitude bombing scheme of removing aggressors from the close and personal horror of war can't be a good thing IMHO. Turns the whole world into a video game.

We went and toured a robotics exhibition of mostly school aged kids tonite and notably the only ones who were not kids had some very high tech and big drones on display. There is a company with military contracts building drones here and I saw a job opening. I fit the bill, even having their wet dream, a A&P license. As much as the nerd in me would LOVE to build and be part of a team manufacturing all sizes of flying contraptions the moral side of me couldn't do it. After my kids were born and I had a vested interest in what kind of world I was helping to leave behind I knew I couldn't continue to fix cars and support a petroleum based economy. That's when I bailed and made food packing equipment. So how in the world could I build drones for the military? It's getting harder and harder to do no harm either directly or indirectly. I know Oppenheimer deeply regretted his part in birthing the bomb. How many others were working on something to make the world better like in the book:
The Alchemy of Air Audiobook | Thomas Hager | Audible.com

And they take the discovery of how to extract nitrogen from the air to make fertilizer as the world is running out of supplies of guano and the Nazi regime use it to make munitions in WWII.

Like the old Quicksilver Messenger Service song goes, "Oh God, pride of man, broken in the dust again"....

**Paul Jones** · Sep 27, 2016, 09:20 AM

I had not given drones too much interest except around wildfire season in Southern California and when the someone illegally uses a drone for a better view of the wildfires and forces the water dropping planes and helicopters to be grounded. That is when drone elimination weapons would be useful. I think Cal Fire and other agencies will be able to use their own drones for better fire fighting logistics.

I did not have much use for drones until we started looking into placing solar panels on our southern facing backyard slope instead of the back roof top. I have a neighbor in the higher hillside area of Yorba Linda, CA that flies a drone for creating high resolution videos of the homes in the higher hillsides around 1,300 feet above sea level. We are farther down the hillside at 750' above SL and now considering installing solar panels on our southern exposure hillside. Our next door neighbor just did this but I had no idea who else in the area had installed solar electric until I found on YouTube the high resolution videos produced by the neighbor flying the drones (see for example

). This help me to make the business decision that installing solar panels on the back slope was more common than I thought and a less expensive option than a roof top installation.

**PJs** · Sep 27, 2016, 12:23 PM

Great Posts Guys!

Jon: Looking forward to your post of the Big Machines. As for the FAA control...Idunno that'll be a tough sell. Thinking they are going to have a hard time enforcing it especially with the RC (AMA) guys let alone how many are out there now. They are even being used in DIY and other shows on TV now. I look for the shadows of them now.

Every mall has a kiosk now selling them and its where I got my quad-copter car to play with my grand kids with. Maybe they can regulate altitude and airspace but weights that broad are tough imho. Either way its not the drone it's the operator and payloads that bother me most. The idea of some joker with a camera watching whatever they want...Paparanazzi's, news media, DOT, law enforcement or any other agency under the patriot act, let a lone the rogue black hats, sharks and squirrels.

There is a great irony surrounding the dual creation and destruction of technology inspired by warfare. On the one hand, we build stuff to destroy stuff. On the other hand, we are still reliant on conflict to motivate creation and advancement of technology.

Totally agree about the irony of it or maybe it's non-comical tragedy, but not sure I agree with we are still reliant on conflict to motivate creation. I do agree some of the tech comes from conflicted times but not reliant on it for creation. One of the most recent genius times was around the turn of the 20th century. The minds from that era were incredibly visionary and transformational imho. There were also conflicts going on all over the world at the time and yet it was a political assassination that triggered WWI, which used the new flying contraptions, and yes created chlorine gas, tanks and better weapons. However Farnsworth didn't invent the television (image dissector) for war nor his Fusor to make bombs but power, or Tesla's AC generation for the electric chair (or elephants as Edison did)...these were altruistic visions brought to form and misused (IMHO) by the power brokers that be. You are correct though in the last 50-75 years that the military has had the most money to spend on the creations that broker war for the better or worse. Even John Browning I admire for his engineering to create a firearm that was reliable and accurate, but he was sported by the military and the companies that sprung from that. I always admired NASA because they had a mission of technology for Advancement into space and the trickle down from that has been almost immeasurable...but then there was Star Wars... Sorry for the rant, but if we could channel these wonderful resources with wisdom, Conscious long term thought with some moral ethics beyond religion and learned behavior...we could do some cool stuff...all in my opinion of course.

C-Bag: Thanks for the link to the book. I'll put it on my list!! Also agree with the Oblivion Laws...way too many, way too many pages written by liers with a not so altruistic agenda and obfuscating the real issues at hand. Glad I'm not the only one who listened to John Cipollina...good quote.

Paul: I so en-joy the good flavor and thoughts you seem to always bring to the party. The idea of firefighters using drones is a really good side of these as well as making good business decisions from the information for yourself and your solar enterprise. The 4K video from your neighbor was stunning and the music wonderful for the topic. It does however bring to mind what detail can be rendered from a 4k video...like reading golf balls from a satellite back in the late 60's. Wish I new your method for staying positive!

Perhaps like TM taking a seat, I should step back and

for a while...I may be in it up to my ears.

~PJ

**Paul Jones** · Sep 27, 2016, 01:15 PM

PJs,

Years ago, I learned to stay positive by coming to the realization of what I can and cannot control. Things I could not control used to bother me and it caused more worry, frustration and depression. I finally realized to focus on being excellent at what I can control and if possible create my own future by having goals and vision on where I wanted to be. This keeps me focused on things I can control and in the end, I am much happier.

I also think back to one of the greatest influences in my life and this was when I was a kid. I was reading the original Declaration of Independence adopted by the Second Continental Congress meeting in Philadelphia on July 4, 1776. The one section that caught my imagination forever was:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The last four words "the pursuit of Happiness" has given me direction and keeps me positive. That is what makes me tick.

Somewhere in HMT I mentioned one of my guiding principles at work for everyone was "A fun place to work" and it was due to the pursuit of Happiness.

Paul

**PJs** · Sep 27, 2016, 06:04 PM

Once again Paul the good words flow. Thank You. Truly good words of wisdom and forethought by some wise men, to the core of their issues at hand. A good rock for a foundation!

Just had a conversation with someone else recently about the Declaration of Independence which I had a small book of it and the Constitution on my desk for years and read often. It was given to me by my Dad many years ago now...and it's not on my desk now and can't remember if I gave it to my son or its a matter of CRS or maybe those Circumlocution guys got it. Also starting to wonder if I'm not on some strange version of PJtv or The Truman Show lately.

Either way I will endeavor to keep a focus on the pursuit of happiness. I always admired that Heinlein quote from Time Enough for Love; "Never appeal to a man's better nature, he may not have one. Invoking his self-interests gives you more leverage", which has multiple meanings as well.

Thanks for being a great rock in the HMT foundation! ~PJ