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Thread: Gasket alternative grooving tool

  1. #1
    Supporting Member olderdan's Avatar
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    olderdan's Tools

    Gasket alternative grooving tool

    Gasket alternative grooving tool

    For some years now I have stopped using gaskets on my engines after deciding that they were never there for my benefit but used to compensate for poor manufacturing, and in my experience always leak after a while.
    I am talking of course about old British iron and not modern machines, my Triumph twin has only a cyl head and base gasket as they are dissimilar metals.

    I know I am not the first to do this, but this is my method and can honestly say that non of my old bikes leak oil after running for a few years even with HTF fluid in chaincases etc.
    It also removes the need to re-tighten after first running.

    Faces have to be flat and a bit of lapping may be necessary, after that a groove is cut in one half and this gives a means of retaining the jointing compound (I use Hylomar Blue as its good enough for Rolls Royce).

    The obvious tool to use is a Dremel type device, mine is made from an old hand piece from a flexi drive connected to a 12 volt drill motor but the important bit is controlling the the cutter as its a freehand process.

    A simple guide attachment was made and a cutter from a 1/8 centre drill ground to a D bit shape does the job, about 15 thou deep is enough.

    It is important to work from the inside face so any slip ups do no harm and just like milling,direction of cut has a bearing.

    The first pic was freehand and I just about got away with it, the second was guided with the attachment and the difference is pretty obvious.


    Gasket alternative grooving tool-screen-shot-09-28-16-06.07-pm.png

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-screen-shot-09-28-16-06.11-pm.png

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-screen-shot-09-29-16-05.04-pm-001.png

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-screen-shot-09-29-16-05.04-pm.png

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-screen-shot-09-29-16-06.35-pm.png

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-screen-shot-09-29-16-06.49-pm.png

    I hope this helps in keeping the oil where it should be.

  2. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to olderdan For This Useful Post:

    bobs409 (02-03-2017), C-Bag (09-29-2016), Frank S (06-22-2018), high-side (09-24-2019), janders1957 (01-27-2018), Jon (09-29-2016), PJs (09-29-2016), Rikk (09-19-2019), Toolmaker51 (09-29-2016)

  3. #2
    PJs
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    PJs's Tools
    Great Idea OlderDan! Wish I would have thought of it. I noticed you stayed a bit south of center line too which is smart in my book. Turnips are notorious leakers!! Back when I built mine I did lap all the faces but used an amazing product I found back then called Kawasaki Bond...best sealant I ever used...had a silver look/compound in it and it came apart well and cleaned up easily. Blue and Red silicone was just out then and never did have much luck with it until the formulas improved. The early KB I used is Long gone now and haven't tried the newer silicone based version...but like you say if Hylomar Blue is good enough for Rolls...it'll work for me. Haven't heard of that before but will have a look for it over here.

    Had a water issue with one of the vehicles while back with a cover plate and 2 hold downs. Think its a casting port on the block, not sure and why not a freeze plug although its a machined face & bore...maybe an Option port?? Dealer said to only use Black RTV. The plate is SS with a slight return flange and the block is AL and of course it's in a PITA place to reach and clean without removing the entire front clip, but got it best I could, applied the thin coat as directed, cross torqued between the 2 nut/studs, checked...all good. About a month later the temp gauge spiked again. Checked, sure enough dripage! This time I pulled the 2 studs by hook or crook and fabbed a flat sanding tool I could get up there with...sure enough not flat and also checked the new flange plate but it was flat. This time I goobed about twice as much Black RTV to squeeze out to the edges of the plate and smoothed it to form a fillet seal to the flange. So far it's fine now about a year later.

    Next Time if it happens I'm using your idea and maybe some of that Rolls stuff!

    Thanks for the great share. ~PJ
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
    Mark Twain

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    Supporting Member olderdan's Avatar
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    olderdan's Tools
    Thanks PJ
    I remember that KB stuff, I think it had an aluminum content, like you I never had much luck with silicone.
    I don,t want to sound like a rep for HB but it also works great on plumbing compression fittings as its non setting.
    Cheers
    Olderdan

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    Thanks olderdan! We've added your Grooving Tool to our Motorcycle Engine category,
    as well as to your builder page: olderdan's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:




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    Thanks olderdan! We've added your Grooving Tool Guide to our Rotary Tools category,
    as well as to your builder page: olderdan's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:




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    Supporting Member tonyfoale's Avatar
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    tonyfoale's Tools
    Dan,

    Like you I have hated paper gaskets, but I hate joint compound even more, but I love O-rings.
    here's how I do it.

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-crankcases_o-ring01.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-crankcases_o-ring03.jpg

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-crankcases_o-ring04.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringbarrel01.jpg

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringbarrel02.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringblankingplate.jpg

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringpushrodtunnel04.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringpushrodtunnel05.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringpushrodtunnel06.jpg

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tonyfoale For This Useful Post:

    Frank S (06-22-2018), olderdan (02-04-2017), Rikk (09-19-2019), Toolmaker51 (06-24-2018)

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    Supporting Member olderdan's Avatar
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    olderdan's Tools
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    Dan,

    Like you I have hated paper gaskets, but I hate joint compound even more, but I love O-rings.
    here's how I do it.
    I know this an old post of yours but I have only just clocked it.
    Your method is the business and if I had the means I would copy, I guess you use o-ring of the roll and join them
    (melt or cyano)?.
    I do convert to o-rings when I can but that's limited to circular items.
    Your work is something to aspire to.
    Regards
    Olderdan

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJs View Post
    Great Idea OlderDan! I found back then called Kawasaki Bond...best sealant I ever used...
    ~PJ
    I think this stuff is made by 3-Bond, same as their "case sealer" product. Funny thing is, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki all have it relabeled for their product line. Same name with all, just substitute the company, Honda Bond, Yama Bond, etc.

    I have fixed many a problem child leaker with this stuff. I do however love the idea of a tool to create grooves for sealant to lock into. O-rings even more, but I would have to do it on a manual Bridgeport, so it wouldn't' look nearly as nice as the ones Tony did.

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    Supporting Member tonyfoale's Avatar
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    tonyfoale's Tools
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    I do however love the idea of a tool to create grooves for sealant to lock into. O-rings even more, but I would have to do it on a manual Bridgeport, so it wouldn't' look nearly as nice as the ones Tony did.
    The first push rod tunnel, that I did, was chased around manually on a Bridgeport. The one shown in the last 3 photos above was done with the CNC. Here is a pic of the manually done one.

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringpushrodtunnel01.jpg Click for full size.
    Chasing around manually.

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringpushrodtunnel02.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-o_ringpushrodtunnel04.jpg
    On the left is the manually traced version with the CNC version on the right.

    Both worked equally well. Never let lack of CNC be an excuse, the world was built on manual Bridgeports.

    Gasket alternative grooving tool-angledheadbored.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-boring-pushrodtunnel.jpg Gasket alternative grooving tool-headbarrel01.jpg
    This what I do at the other end of the pushrod tunnel. In stock form the distance between the two surfaces is slightly variable and the factory used a soft rubber style gasket 2/3 mm thick. This would tend to slide about with use and most old engines have punch marks on the surfaces to try and hold the gasket. As the head to cylinder distance can vary I prefer a system which is designed to allow axial movement. I bore out both head and cylinder to take an O ringed joining tube. Goodbye to leaks.

  14. #10
    Rikk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfoale View Post
    Both worked equally well. Never let lack of CNC be an excuse, the world was built on manual Bridgeports.
    Interesting that you use that phrase. That is the excuse I say to myself and a few machinist friends as to why I don't buy a DRO for my mill, but I substitute dials for Bridgeport.

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