Gasket alternative grooving tool

Gasket alternative grooving tool

For some years now I have stopped using gaskets on my engines after deciding that they were never there for my benefit but used to compensate for poor manufacturing, and in my experience always leak after a while.
I am talking of course about old British iron and not modern machines, my Triumph twin has only a cyl head and base gasket as they are dissimilar metals.

I know I am not the first to do this, but this is my method and can honestly say that non of my old bikes leak oil after running for a few years even with HTF fluid in chaincases etc.
It also removes the need to re-tighten after first running.

Faces have to be flat and a bit of lapping may be necessary, after that a groove is cut in one half and this gives a means of retaining the jointing compound (I use Hylomar Blue as its good enough for Rolls Royce).

The obvious tool to use is a Dremel type device, mine is made from an old hand piece from a flexi drive connected to a 12 volt drill motor but the important bit is controlling the the cutter as its a freehand process.

A simple guide attachment was made and a cutter from a 1/8 centre drill ground to a D bit shape does the job, about 15 thou deep is enough.

It is important to work from the inside face so any slip ups do no harm and just like milling,direction of cut has a bearing.

The first pic was freehand and I just about got away with it, the second was guided with the attachment and the difference is pretty obvious.


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I hope this helps in keeping the oil where it should be.

Great Idea OlderDan! Wish I would have thought of it. :p I noticed you stayed a bit south of center line too which is smart in my book. Turnips are notorious leakers!! Back when I built mine I did lap all the faces but used an amazing product I found back then called Kawasaki Bond...best sealant I ever used...had a silver look/compound in it and it came apart well and cleaned up easily. Blue and Red silicone was just out then and never did have much luck with it until the formulas improved. The early KB I used is Long gone now and haven't tried the newer silicone based version...but like you say if Hylomar Blue is good enough for Rolls...it'll work for me. Haven't heard of that before but will have a look for it over here.

Had a water issue with one of the vehicles while back with a cover plate and 2 hold downs. Think its a casting port on the block, not sure and why not a freeze plug although its a machined face & bore...maybe an Option port?? Dealer said to only use Black RTV. The plate is SS with a slight return flange and the block is AL and of course it's in a PITA place to reach and clean without removing the entire front clip, but got it best I could, applied the thin coat as directed, cross torqued between the 2 nut/studs, checked...all good. About a month later the temp gauge spiked again. Checked, sure enough dripage! This time I pulled the 2 studs by hook or crook and fabbed a flat sanding tool I could get up there with...sure enough not flat and also checked the new flange plate but it was flat. This time I goobed about twice as much Black RTV to squeeze out to the edges of the plate and smoothed it to form a fillet seal to the flange. So far it's fine now about a year later.

Next Time if it happens I'm using your idea and maybe some of that Rolls stuff!

Thanks for the great share. ~PJ

Thanks PJ
I remember that KB stuff, I think it had an aluminum content, like you I never had much luck with silicone.
I don,t want to sound like a rep for HB but it also works great on plumbing compression fittings as its non setting.
Cheers
Olderdan

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Thanks olderdan! We've added your Grooving Tool to our Motorcycle Engine category,
as well as to your builder page: olderdan's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-grooving-tool-6"> <img src="/uploads/158293/homemade-grooving-tool-6.png"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-grooving-tool-6">Grooving Tool</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/olderdan">olderdan</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/motorcycle'>motorcycle</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/drill'>drill</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/grooving'>grooving</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Thanks olderdan! We've added your Grooving Tool Guide to our Rotary Tools category,
as well as to your builder page: olderdan's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-grooving-tool-guide"> <img src="/uploads/158301/homemade-grooving-tool-guide.png"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-grooving-tool-guide">Grooving Tool Guide</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/olderdan">olderdan</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/guide'>guide</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/rotary-tool'>rotary tool</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/grooving'>grooving</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Dan,

Like you I have hated paper gaskets, but I hate joint compound even more, but I love O-rings.
here's how I do it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonyfoale

Dan,

Like you I have hated paper gaskets, but I hate joint compound even more, but I love O-rings.
here's how I do it.

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I know this an old post of yours but I have only just clocked it.
Your method is the business and if I had the means I would copy, I guess you use o-ring of the roll and join them
(melt or cyano)?.
I do convert to o-rings when I can but that's limited to circular items.
Your work is something to aspire to.
Regards
Olderdan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJs

Great Idea OlderDan! I found back then called Kawasaki Bond...best sealant I ever used...
~PJ

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I think this stuff is made by 3-Bond, same as their "case sealer" product. Funny thing is, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki all have it relabeled for their product line. Same name with all, just substitute the company, Honda Bond, Yama Bond, etc.

I have fixed many a problem child leaker with this stuff. I do however love the idea of a tool to create grooves for sealant to lock into. O-rings even more, but I would have to do it on a manual Bridgeport, so it wouldn't' look nearly as nice as the ones Tony did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rikk

I do however love the idea of a tool to create grooves for sealant to lock into. O-rings even more, but I would have to do it on a manual Bridgeport, so it wouldn't' look nearly as nice as the ones Tony did.

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The first push rod tunnel, that I did, was chased around manually on a Bridgeport. The one shown in the last 3 photos above was done with the CNC. Here is a pic of the manually done one.

Attachment 31223 Click for full size.
Chasing around manually.

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On the left is the manually traced version with the CNC version on the right.

Both worked equally well. Never let lack of CNC be an excuse, the world was built on manual Bridgeports.

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This what I do at the other end of the pushrod tunnel. In stock form the distance between the two surfaces is slightly variable and the factory used a soft rubber style gasket 2/3 mm thick. This would tend to slide about with use and most old engines have punch marks on the surfaces to try and hold the gasket. As the head to cylinder distance can vary I prefer a system which is designed to allow axial movement. I bore out both head and cylinder to take an O ringed joining tube. Goodbye to leaks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonyfoale

Both worked equally well. Never let lack of CNC be an excuse, the world was built on manual Bridgeports.

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Interesting that you use that phrase. That is the excuse I say to myself and a few machinist friends as to why I don't buy a DRO for my mill, but I substitute dials for Bridgeport. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rikk

Interesting that you use that phrase. That is the excuse I say to myself and a few machinist friends as to why I don't buy a DRO for my mill, but I substitute dials for Bridgeport. :)

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A lot of work has been done on mills without a DRO but they sure are useful and they save much time and help reduce errors. My mill came fitted with CNC and so I had DRO built in. I would say that only 5 to 10% of my work is done with CNC but 99% is done with the DRO.

I always felt guilty booting up a computer and CNC stuff just to read a DRO so a couple of weeks back I made an Arduino based readout which sits piggy back on the glass slides' signals. Now I only have to switch on an Arduino thingy to have a full 3 axis DRO with some calculation options which the CNC controller doesn't have. Here are some pix.

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Click images for full size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rikk

Interesting that you use that phrase. That is the excuse I say to myself and a few machinist friends as to why I don't buy a DRO for my mill, but I substitute dials for Bridgeport. :)

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Sorry no pix, my trick predates digital convenience by decades. Reinforced my admiration for absolute over incremental positioning. Best of all, it's cheap and cheerful, and great for multiple parts or re-use. Part of this will be familiar.
By maintaining backlash, I've never found significant loss or gain in .200 per revolution dials typical of Bridgeport patterned machines. I'd run a strip of masking tape along lower edge of either axis, with a shorter piece below, at selected datum position. Mark that with a fine point inkpen, along with some indication of that coordinate; 0.000 for example. Move to next position from Zero counting .200's; (.200-.400-.600 etc) to next coordinate, ie 2.625. (will be 13 turns and .025). Mark that as you did origin. Continue across layout, and no reason this couldn't be first part. Go to lunch, come back after a weekend, it works fine to pick up where left off.
The benefit is like a one line vernier, differentiating between say, 2.625 and 2.525, as the marked increments can only show on 'their' side of the dial, odd or even. Here in Los Angeles, it was easy to find machinists scales that were seconds. There was temptation to drill and countersink a 36", alas not easy as a strip of tape.

Just got a tube of “non setting“ Hylomar out a couple of days ago, probably 10 years old, and it’s set as hard as a chocolate frog that’s been in the freezer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moby Duck

Just got a tube of “non setting“ Hylomar out a couple of days ago, probably 10 years old, and it’s set as hard as a chocolate frog that’s been in the freezer.

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Opposite experience here. My tube must be 15 years old and it is still as useable as it was when I bought it. It has lasted this long without it being used up is because I try to avoid the use of gaskets or sealer.