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Removing a punchout from an electrical box is easy if you can use a hammer and a screwdriver. But what if something delicate is already in the box? Or, what if there wasn't room to swing a hammer? One answer is probably already in your shop.
If you are interested, please see
https://rick.sparber.org/PunchoutRemoval.pdf
Your comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us.
Thanks,
Rick
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Thanks rgsparber! We've added your Punchout Removal Tool to our Electrical category,
as well as to your builder page: rgsparber's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:
<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-punchout-removal-tool"> <img src="/uploads/234170/homemade-punchout-removal-tool.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-punchout-removal-tool">Punchout Removal Tool</a> <span> by <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/builder/rgsparber">rgsparber</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/punch'>punch</a>, <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/disassembly'>disassembly</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Got me thinking about modified vice grip pliers
I'd sure like to see a picture when you get it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by suther51
Rick
I have the "c" clamp style vice grips that would do great for this, as long as the punch out is 1" or biger, but a small c clamp would be eazy to use too for the small ones. I just happen to be doing all the electrickel in my 3rd shop Im just about done building. the effing square D POS breaker box has punchouts.... but the effing things are not centered withen each other. and the largest size is what I need... but... for some stupid reason they did not make that one round. they made the smaller ones the back edge of the biuger one... yup 2 different radii so the fitting wont go through.I had to take it all appart and put in milling ,achine and use a carbide hole saw to cut the holes.....you cant fix stupid. some know it all effing moron engineer. to top that off all the reciptical boxes are made for 1/2 emt fittings... I wanted to use 1" conduit throught, but there is none to be found due to covid 19.so I went with 3/4 and had to machine every box for 2-3 fittings. oh well Ive always got to be different and I like things the way I want them so Im used to it.
Marksbug,Quote:
Originally Posted by marksbug
What would you do differently if there is a next time? I'm sure you learned a lot from this experience.
Rick
(Engineer)
FYI, there are sizing rules by the NEC for the co suit size, box size, minimum distance from the nipple to the far side of the box per conduit size, etc. Hence, the reason the boxes were limited in size. While I'm not an electrician, I did pick up a couple of technical handbooks for the NEC code. (I'm an engineer.....)Quote:
Originally Posted by marksbug
I did all of my garage with conduit, so I have worked with it ... ;-) There's over 50 outlets, so it was a fair bit of conduit and boxes .......
My main panel has six 2" conduits coming into it. To meet code, I used a 18x18 junction box below the panel. This is due to the rules I refered to above.
Also keep in mind, that unless you are using larger wire that requires the 1" or larger wire, you are limited in the number of circuits per conduit before you start de-rating. Generally, the code encourages you to run one or two circuits per conduit.
I get that the main panel punch outs were not good for you, but generally a set of dikes or a punch out tool work nicely.... While I'm sure the milling machine did a nice job, that was a bit over kill, but use what you have! :-)
I have a hand held hydraulic punch tool that will knock out 1/2 to 2" trade size holes.
Hopefully this is helpful, let me know if you have questions...
Sorry, if you are using a hammer and screwdriver you are working to hard. I use a screwdriver and my linesman pliers and where there is little clearance I grab the my flat nose pliers. This method works where there is less clearance than using a clamp. I can do that faster than you can get the clamp screwed on. Of course I have forty years of experiance and thousands of KO's.
I can see usefulness there, especially for an electrician working aloft hanging conduit and rows of lights, like me,this coming spring!Quote:
Originally Posted by suther51
Except for the electrician part, I'm just hanging hardware. But there'll be dozens of knockouts to remove.
yes most knock outs are easy to remove.some are a bitch and sometimes you want a different hole size. yes there are rules.there are also workarounds. and doing things the way you want it for a particular reason. things I would change or do different? make that barn taller by at least 2 feet. buy all materials before covid& the demoncrats shot the prices up3x & more of what they were when I started,tin roof,witch it may get over the shingles any way.longer foyer,lighter color siding it's light brown now but that sure does heat up probably 4x as much as white does. run a few extra wires, extra box or 2, awning.and more. but my pockets are not deep.
Like marksbug points out, many of our pockets were deeper a couple years back.........until a crew of freaks, morons and puppets stole what they couldn't win.
I have materials collected (surplus, great auctions, farm sales, closeouts, and the deals you trip over) over a seriously long period of time for my shop, especially wire bought when the surplus of construction supplies flooded market after Hurricane Katrina.
What seemed then like a lot of outlay turned out better investment than ANY bank or saving would have done.
To start, I laid a floor plan beforehand, estimating total length from main panel to each load. Arranged loads so their boxes are near each other, because some will run more often then others, handy way of restricting amperage needed from the utility company.
A pyramid of brown/ orange/yellow/green awaits in the corner.
Not using conduit; found 360 feet 8" x 8" wireway (like cable tray but sheetmetal with a hinged lid), SOW-SJO 12/4 & 10/4 cord, L16-20 480v twist-lock plugs and connectors. While no panel yet, have disconnects for the various branches, local disconnects will be twist-locks on the cord drops, nothing laying on the floor.
Still need 1 pin & sleeve connector, handful of 30A or 40A plugs for welders.
Almost (90%?) all are 440v 3Ø, have VFD's for 2 that are 50Hz. 1 leg will supply 277v for lights. Will use VFD's or buck transformers for 2 or 3 that are 240v 3Ø.
Conduit will run inside perimeter for 120v, there's a disc/ belt sander that wants 240v 1Ø.
But today isn't electrical project. Found perhaps 160' of Sched 40 3" pipe cut into 5' sections (used of course, but 'ring' as being very solid). Researching how to splice those for columns, pillars to support a mezzanine. It's also been planned awhile, 2 years ago got 35 panels of fiberglass decking grate 4' x 12'. Normal price is $300 & up new. I got them at $50 each for the quantity, and a long drive, Feb of 21. That diesel compared to now would add about $5.00 each.
Having some idea what people ask $.$$-wise tells you when to jump. But knowing price only a third of the equation, be SURE to add the COST.
Regarding deep pockets, I never had them. As son of Depression era parents, learned it's worthwhile having a l-ooooong grocery list, alphabetize and look for less expensive ways to check items off. Nowadays, it's in my mobile phone. It sees more use than making/ taking calls.
Unless talking with a friend west of Dallas Fort Worth. He knows a bit about collecting material, about 50x more than I.
Ive always tried to buy the "deals". ebay is a great source, like the 50 grade 8 1/2" nuts for about $14 I bought today for a jig Im making. thats not a great deal but much less than normaly and especialy when the shipping is included. Ive gotton a lot of nos car parts at great deals, some have gone up 3&4x whit I paid just last year, Im not a horder, but I do buy what I need or know I will need when I find it at a deal. a good deal not the 10 or 20% off **** thats marked up first. when i built my first shop back in 2000 (24x34 shop full central ac&heat, sheet rocked, bathroom kitchen blasting room with multi filteration, engine room etc 220 on all the shop walls for what ever I may need to move someplace else or new machine. I got most of the building supplies when west building materials was closing up nation wide. like 75% off lumber( some turned into pretzels when the straping was cut off the load, but still most good). and the huricane straps,joist hangers, brackets almost 90% off of those, my shop is way over built the inspector said I had 4x as many as required by code.thats not a bad thing. the electrickel box was 75% off the wire was only about 25% off but all boxes & stuff like that was about 60% off. I have less than $20000 in that shop tottaly finished and thats with 5000 psi slab, fill dirt to raise it up about 18" above grade, long concreat ramp into the shop, plumbing toilet , everything, even running power to the house with the 75% off humoungus underground power cable,all in pvc conduent( and thats quite a bitch to doo!!. hell I have about that much$ in my small barn I built 2-3years ago thats about 1/3rd of the size. ther were no deals then.but most bought was before the democrats virus hit. like my milling machine's I got them at deals, 1 wasent being used at a buddys shop that I did some work for , it was free and came with some tooling that he had no clue what it was but I for sure did and I needed it. the other mill was dammaged in transit... I got it for cheep and the guys that delevered it to my home charged me half price because i agreed to waite about 3 weeks because they were bussy moving another machine shop. $100 to pick up bridgeport 3 towns away and stick it inside my shop aint bad at all.. deals are out there you just have to find them. and dont get in no hurry....or piss any body off.as for the dammaged mill...I got a new handle, the lead screw was bent about 1/8" after the bearing so I straightened it got new handle and all is good. around $550 total in the machine including delivery. Ive since put a cheep china DRO on it that I cant remember how to use I use it so little. and a power cross feed I got off flebay used i got from japan for cheep, now days the china cross feeds are cheep too but they werent back then I still have less it that used one and it's a name brand. fle bay is a great source for stuff.the new stuff has gone up a lt but still deals on some used stuff if you just look and weight& sea. just be sure to factor shipping in everything.
I typically use a water pump plier (channel lock brand name) in their smallest size, and from the edge of the metallic box, reach in with the jaws, which are one or two grooves from the minimum zero grab of the plier, and just push the KO toward the side the original punch machine left the KO. Once wedged from flat, grab it with the plier jaws now in their zero grab, and wiggle back and forth to break the tang holding it in.
My problem with KOs is the multi stamped in circuit panels. Where worn tooling does not do real good piercing of the round edges, Multi tangs around the perimeter to break, and stopping the unwanted larger KO hole. That's my bigger fight typically. Those tangs do not like to break where you want them too. And I hate using reduction bushing washers to fix my incompetence.
That, and trying to get #2AWG copper into 115amp GE circuit breakers, and keeping the bend radius inside the panels to not look like a total hack ran the wires. That and I never make short wires in the circuit breaker panel, as you never know if you need to move the circuit to a long reach from where it is now.
Also, I'm changing out all my breakers to be dual AFCI/GFCI, as electrical arc from accidental sources would be a bad thing. And current code requires this for all new home constructions.
I'm also a conduit sort vs NM (Romex) wiring. Especially in shops. I also don't trust the EMT to support fault current return to ground, and always run a copper wire in all conduit runs. I learned that from personal experience of seeing a TW wire short to the conduit fitting, cause massive vaporization of the fitting and copper 12AWG wire, and never tripped the breaker. And that was less then 25 ft of conduit run to the panel that sourced the current. It was 3/4" conduit. I would use 1" everywhere if I did it again, as pulling 9 12 AWG TW (not THHN, as that was not common to me 40 years ago) was a job by myself. And I pulled my 2000sqft shop alone. I'm a believer in less then 40% of max capacity, so you can push the wires to the next box.