Greetings, and tool sharpening ideas

Greetings all. Looking forward to seeing ideas I didn't know I was looking for yet. I do have one thing I really wish I knew how to do. I have tried sharpening my own hand saws, and have the clamping vise that screws to my bench edge to hold the blade. But when I try to file the teeth by hand I never come close to even cutting of the teeth. I've got the angle right, I understand the goal - but I just don't have the hand skill to sharpen the teeth without leaving one bigger than the other. Seems to me there must be a better way. Has anyone come up with a home-built idea for a tooth index and jig?

To make matters harder, I have one backsaw that was of excellent quality - until I set my file to it. In the end, I wound up grinding it all down flat with the plan to cut new teeth. But, well, I need that indexer. It would have to be one that can vary in tpi, or else build several. I've searched, but either there isn't anything listed, or my keyword search is out of touch with the articles.

Hi groesener - welcome to HomemadeTools.net :welcome:

I'm going to put this in our Tools in Progress subforum so you can gather some ideas. Here's an article that we previously featured, that might help you: Welcome to Vintage Saw's Saw Filing Treatise

Improper sharpening is a time-honored DIY tradition. The first time I took a file to a chainsaw chain, it was not pretty. :headscratch:

I have a Harbor Freight Chain Saw sharpening tool. It is electric and may be able to be adapted to your handsaw use. It uses the saw teeth for indexing. The grinding wheel can be shaped with a diamond cluster. This would make the sharpening job quick and easy. Everything is adjustable so you could do any tooth pitch.

Do NOT under any circumstances use a chain saw sharpener on a hand saw. The heat generated will destroy the saw.

1) do a Google and/or YouTube search on sharpening hand saws.

Even better find a retired carpenter to teach you how to sharpen hand saws. You may be able to find one via your local vo-tech or community college.

Saw sharpening: The only jig I have seen came with the saw sharpening courses From years ago. DIY time honored tradition. Yep! Practice makes perfect. Practice on cheap Saws first. You tube is my go to for just about any how too's. one thing that is just as important is a good saw set tool. I have one from the 20's. don't know if they still make them in this throw away society. Some of the "older" carpenters may know how. Most don't because it was as production first so you didn't have time to sharpen saws. Buy another one. One more thing. You can't get it right if you can't see, so good lighting and probably even a lower power set of cheaters would be helpful.

I agree... learn to file any saw by hand. (Steel saws that is) I would never use a chainsaw sharpener on a chain saw either. Filing a chain is easy and quick, IF you learn how. Your chain will last much longer too.

I am afraid on chain saws, I use a dremel free hand, not pretty but gets me back out in the woods fast.
On handsaws..... I dont think I have the patience anymore. You may be having issues because of the "tooth set".
It makes it hard to get the teeth even. I would do as suggested above, check out youtube, I love and learn tons
on youtube. Just remember just because you saw it on youtube, its not the right way but at least one way to
do somthing. Sorry I could not be more help.

Look around ebay junk stores and the like for a saw tooth hand set and learn how to use it, then google how to file a hand saw and study the the set up and execution of filing the teeth. Without a proper set it will NEVER cut any way near right!!!
There arnt any short cuts to learning how to file sharpen hand saws, I have done mine for most of my life and I am 76 years old this month and still take a file to the blades and have my hand setter to set the teeth.
GL and dont give up you will have an A HA moment and it will fall into place. look at a new good quality hand saw by looking down the row of teeth to get an idea on what they should look like, then look at it from the side so you get a idea how every other tooth has a different angle and set.
All saws are not filed the same such as a Japanese wood saw has no set just alternating file profiles.
Dont know if I helped or hurt your efforts but it is not that hard if you study the angles.

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Originally Posted by groesener

Greetings all. Looking forward to seeing ideas I didn't know I was looking for yet. I do have one thing I really wish I knew how to do. I have tried sharpening my own hand saws, and have the clamping vise that screws to my bench edge to hold the blade. But when I try to file the teeth by hand I never come close to even cutting of the teeth. I've got the angle right, I understand the goal - but I just don't have the hand skill to sharpen the teeth without leaving one bigger than the other. Seems to me there must be a better way. Has anyone come up with a home-built idea for a tooth index and jig?

To make matters harder, I have one backsaw that was of excellent quality - until I set my file to it. In the end, I wound up grinding it all down flat with the plan to cut new teeth. But, well, I need that indexer. It would have to be one that can vary in tpi, or else build several. I've searched, but either there isn't anything listed, or my keyword search is out of touch with the articles.

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Before you sharpen you need to use a saw set to get the proper even set to the teeth. Since your efforts doing it by hand do not give you the results you are looking for, you may want to modify a clamp on chain saw filer by adding an indexer to the tool so you can keep the correct spacing. Obviously use a triangular file instead of the round file for chain saws. At least you would keep the right angles and depth this way.

The most important things in hand filing saw teeth are angles, filing depth and filing an even number of strokes for each tooth.

Here is a good video on how to sharpen a hand saw.

groesener,

I remember reading John Muir's autobiography "The Story of My Boyhood and Youth" where the author made his own saw. Here's the excerpt: " There were a few tools in a corner of the cellar,--a vise, files, a hammer, chisels, etc., that father had brought from Scotland, but no saw excepting a coarse crooked one that was unfit for sawing dry hickory or oak. So I made a fine-tooth saw suitable for my work out of a strip of steel that had formed part of an old-fashioned corset, that cut the hardest wood smoothly."

You could try that approach, but that would be extreme. :D

---Joe

Long ago I got from Brookestone what looks like a hack-saw but instead of a blade it held a triangular file
with a flexible steel button that slid along the blade. Set correct angle for file and it was I simply slid it a few
times to sharpen. For those that do not have the steady hand like milomilo. Now I shall in his honor name
my file holder Milo's_Sharpener. :)

Best

I have in a collection of tools from my grandfather and my wife's grandfather a number of saw sets, saw files, and a simple saw file jig. i kept them out of curiosity, but I haven't used them yet.

a month or so ago i found Paul Sellers on Youtube, and his videos on sharpening hand saws with hand tools are among the easiest to follow i've seen. Check him out and see what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA5DixEaaUo

Best Regards and good luck,

Bob R

Quote:

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Originally Posted by groesener

Greetings all. Looking forward to seeing ideas I didn't know I was looking for yet. I do have one thing I really wish I knew how to do. I have tried sharpening my own hand saws, and have the clamping vise that screws to my bench edge to hold the blade. But when I try to file the teeth by hand I never come close to even cutting of the teeth. I've got the angle right, I understand the goal - but I just don't have the hand skill to sharpen the teeth without leaving one bigger than the other. Seems to me there must be a better way. Has anyone come up with a home-built idea for a tooth index and jig?

To make matters harder, I have one backsaw that was of excellent quality - until I set my file to it. In the end, I wound up grinding it all down flat with the plan to cut new teeth. But, well, I need that indexer. It would have to be one that can vary in tpi, or else build several. I've searched, but either there isn't anything listed, or my keyword search is out of touch with the articles.

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I watched a video of Roy Underhill (Woodwright shop) it is just the thing for hand sharpening hand saws. You need a good saw file and a tooth setting tool for the tooth offset, but check out the video it should answer your question.

Hello groesener!
The first reply you got from Jon has what you need to know - when you "joint" the teeth with a file across the top you will get all the teeth to the same height. You then file the gullets behind until the flat spots on top JUST dissapear, and no more! your teeth will now be the same height, and sharp. That article is bang on how to do it. Unless your eyes are much less tired than mine, you will need glasses to see when the flat is gone. Best of luck!
Ward

Quote:

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Originally Posted by groesener

Greetings all. Looking forward to seeing ideas I didn't know I was looking for yet. I do have one thing I really wish I knew how to do. I have tried sharpening my own hand saws, and have the clamping vise that screws to my bench edge to hold the blade. But when I try to file the teeth by hand I never come close to even cutting of the teeth. I've got the angle right, I understand the goal - but I just don't have the hand skill to sharpen the teeth without leaving one bigger than the other. Seems to me there must be a better way. Has anyone come up with a home-built idea for a tooth index and jig?

To make matters harder, I have one backsaw that was of excellent quality - until I set my file to it. In the end, I wound up grinding it all down flat with the plan to cut new teeth. But, well, I need that indexer. It would have to be one that can vary in tpi, or else build several. I've searched, but either there isn't anything listed, or my keyword search is out of touch with the articles.

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Hello,
To sharpen a hand saw you will first need a saw set. This is what gives the saw the kerf.
before setting the teeth level the teeth of the saw with a file or similar then set them choosing the correct set. ( A backsaw saw has a small set, a ripping saw a larger set) Alterative teeth are set pointing to one side and the others set pointing to the opposite side.
Then with the correct sized file for the saw start to sharpen the teeth (remembering that every other tooth is sharpened to the same angle. When one side is completed turn the saw round and sharpen that side as before.
If done correctly, with a large toothed saw you should be able to place a needle lenghtways between the teeth and when the saw is inclined the needle should slide down the saw.
Hope that this is of some help to you.

To all who are decrying the terrors of chainsaw sharpeners: do not use an electric one. Any good hardware store should have a hand chainsaw sharpening jig: a round file in an enclosure, attached to a bar with several angles marked on it and some stops. These can be readily adapted to hand saws, with a flat or thread file.

The only other tip I was told, which goes the same for knifes, chains, axes and any similiarly edged tool: ALWAYS 1=1. If you file one tooth three time, the next tooth must be three times, and the one after and the one after and the one after... If you lose count knitting row counters will handily fit on the file. Slow and laborius, but all good things...

Clean your file often and well. Nothing worse than a nice clean cut that has a notch out of it because there was swage in the file.

Do one side at a time. Easiest way to screw a hand saw is to go tooth by tooth, changing side every time.

P.s. I hate sharpening handsaws and have on occassion been known to go by a new one before sharpening my favorite.

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Originally Posted by oldpastit

( A backsaw saw has a small set, a ripping saw a larger set)

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I once bought a backsaw that is more aggresive than most cross cuts. Terrible to use on fine stuf, and difficult to use on hack work, but it has had it's rare moments of glory.