Guys, we need a challenge - welding respirator

HSE is the UK have just decided that welding is finally dangerous for your health after years of saying the evidence was inconclusive.
They are bringing out new regulation regarding ventilation and controls to limit exposure to welding fumes.
As if by magic the £250 welding mask respirators have increased in value to £550.
The respirators that connect to air lines are the most bloody dangerous things you can think of, effectively you get drowned or worse. You have stale air in compressors which can have harmful H2S gas content, not exactly the alternative i would be looking for.
I have been playing around with the idea of 3D printing parts to attach a hose to the back of a welding mask and using the guts of a travel hair dryer (12v) powered from the guts of an old cordless drill to make a forced air system which would be mounted in a belt back behind the operator. Just like a real one. Cant get enough air pushed through. As it is a gotta have piece of kit we will all have on our wish list, I'm looking for us all to collaborate on a share alike open source design to come up with a cheap, reliable and easy to build alternative to the £1200 Miller equivalents.

Thoughts on the back of a cigarette packet please.

I've been welding for over 50 years and can't ever remember breathing any fumes except when I had to weld inside of a vessel and then we had forced ventilation, for one I never have my head right over where I am welding and maintain a distance of at least 16 inches.
I've seen those dastardly Lincoln and Miller masks with the compressed air. you couldn't get me to wear one at any $$$$$ rate

I hear what you are saying buddy.
Unfortunately it looks like this new enforcement is going to to affect all Uk welding operations, weather it be a self employed one man outfit or an engineering company. The idiotic government and its incompetent departments like to go balls out without thinking anything through. As if Loler and puwer were not enough on top of COSHH. They got rid of steel electrical consumer units when i was an apprentice as they were considered an issue when fighting electrical fires, the same idiots have now banned plastic in favour of steel again. what changed to make them safer and less of a risk, beats me - done both fire fighting and electrical work and can see why they were banned in the first place but not why they were brought back. You guys have a saying stupid is as stupid does, the Canadians have something about a bear.

I spent a sleepless hour last night (just one) thinking how i could build a compressor aka turbine engine with a 3D printer to push a higher volume of air.
There will be guys seeing dollar signs at the manufacturing opportunity of such an idea, id say don't do it. stay honest to the Homemadetools philosophy. No one stiffs you for metal brake plans - so share and share alike.

I will be photographing my current built parts + 3M ventilator mask (had an idea to do the thing either way, either a mask under the welding helmet or forcing air into the helmet without wearing a mask. Copyright shouldn't be an issue as SIP built one of these things in the 70s and have let their IP expire, i'm going to blame them.
Will also send current 3D part files for anyone interested.

The problem with respirators is they require a seal around the face. Anyone who has ever done much out of position welding in confined spaces has had an errant spark come bouncing around inside their mask. I've even had them get inside of leather sock hoods not fun when you have something making a seal around your face the spark will always find a fold to adhere to creating a painful burn. without a respirator that same spark may have struck your face but rolled harmlessly away while maybe creating a small irritating burn spot. Also those of us who sport a beard would tell the constabulary to go sod themselves.
I've been inside pressure vessels and tanks where it gets really hot and often times they are dusty respirators even forced air ones do not do much to alleviate the discomfort except for being able to breathe. What I usually did was merely attach a long hose to the exhaust of a clean shop-vac to the top inside of my hood not only could I breathe but it helped to reduce the buildup of heat in my hood.
We were replacing the klinker chains in a cement kiln once the kiln was still 140°f inside piping forced cooling only served to create a thick dust cloud so we used air hoses from a large air compressor with a charcoal scrubber filter the air was close to dive tank quality which turned out to be a better solution than having us try to wear underwater type welding helmets too cumbersome and heavy when you are not in water.
So your idea or a personal waist pack with a turbine fan ducted through a hose to your helmet is a good one you will want to add a rear cover to fully engulf your head to insure the air flow has a positive pressure forcing the air down past your neck and shoulders.

This wheel has already been invented.
https://www.millerwelds.com/safety/r...irators-m00482
But $2000USD it's pricey.
This was the first hit on search for "welding helmet with air filtration", so there probably are many other suppliers.
3M has one titled FRESH AIR WELDING HELMET SYSTEM, which used compressed air with a vortex tube, similar to mining equipment. But it's ~$1600USD.
I've looked for this before, but just for cooling air, as I get's real irritated when my eye glasses, and the shade glass fog up.

I would almost guarantee there is a paper trail leading to lobby money every time these new ever more restrictive laws are proposed

The exhaust of a shop vac, with the motor/filter section out of the body, routed to a modified regular welding helmet will substantially reduce any fume inhalation by the wearer. I wouldn't recommend this for a professional/heavy duty welder, but for the occasional hobbyist, like myself, this should be OK. Of course, the air inlet should be in an area with uncontaminated air.
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Mike

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Originally Posted by Frank S

I would almost guarantee there is a paper trail leading to lobby money every time these new ever more restrictive laws are proposed

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I was thinking this same thing when I posted. To me, all democratic governments work for the oligarchy to maintain or increase the value of money pumps. They bribe the system. There is money in this regulation for someone.

Still not what i consider cheap but a lot cheaper than the Miller unit.
https://www.wish.com/search/gas%20ma...&source=search
or search on Wish for....Fashion Full Face Gas Mask Electric Constant Flow Supplied Air Fed Respirator System
$151 without any discounts. Should be fairly easy to modify for use on a welding helmet.
I've used a ventilated helmet before, they're worth there weight in gold in the summertime. I do a lot of fine TIG welding and would love to have one of my own. I'll be following this tread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troll Hunter

The exhaust of a shop vac, with the motor/filter section out of the body, routed to a modified regular welding helmet will substantially reduce any fume inhalation by the wearer. I wouldn't recommend this for a professional/heavy duty welder, but for the occasional hobbyist, like myself, this should be OK. Of course, the air inlet should be in an area with uncontaminated air.
\
Mike

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This is my thought as well, use a small, perhaps even 12v car vac? And they let people play rugby and allow boxing, skydiving, mountaineering and goodness knows what else that is blatantly dangerous. Just little people sitting in small offices trying to warrant their existence.

I've seen a lot of pipeline welders get their mask right down a few inched from where they were welding and the smoke haze would be engulfing them. I'd say dude if you are having a hard time seeing the bead get a cheater magnifying lenz for your helmet and get your head out of the cloud you will live longer

I have been wondering of late that most of these enforced new regulations are simply to generate VAT income for the government. The same has happened in the housing rental market as I have just been forced to spend close to £10 grand to allow me to rent one property, thats a lot of VAT @ 20%. they do not care if suppliers double their prices as they just get more. Tradesmen having to pay for enforced courses and update their equipment on a regular basis, we are on the 18th edition of electrical regs on a system that was already regarded as the safest in the world.

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Originally Posted by olderdan

I have been wondering of late that most of these enforced new regulations are simply to generate VAT income for the government. The same has happened in the housing rental market as I have just been forced to spend close to £10 grand to allow me to rent one property, thats a lot of VAT @ 20%. they do not care if suppliers double their prices as they just get more. Tradesmen having to pay for enforced courses and update their equipment on a regular basis, we are on the 18th edition of electrical regs on a system that was already regarded as the safest in the world.

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Sometimes the regulations can get downright silly...

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If thats for real its priceless, I dont know where you find this stuff but keep it coming.

Yeah who are they going to fine the dead guy who touched the wires or the surviving family who knew nothing of his intentions to touch them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olderdan

If thats for real its priceless, I dont know where you find this stuff but keep it coming.

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I collect pictures of signs. Some are puzzling...

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some are funny...

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and some are just plain incomprehensible...

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This is where I started

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I liked the funky breather system for $115, I wonder how long the motor would last, wasn't a great fan of the filter being at the front but i guess it wouldn't be too much hassle to frig the thing.

For reference the 12v hairdryer is crap. farting into a vacuum tube would be more beneficial.

Got to keep trying for a tool of the week T shirt, Problem is mine will have JASON on it (a tool)

My sign choices
Attachment 29392Attachment 29393Attachment 29394Attachment 29395Attachment 29396Attachment 29397Attachment 29398
& Pob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metric_taper

This wheel has already been invented.
https://www.millerwelds.com/safety/r...irators-m00482
But $2000USD it's pricey.
This was the first hit on search for "welding helmet with air filtration", so there probably are many other suppliers.
3M has one titled FRESH AIR WELDING HELMET SYSTEM, which used compressed air with a vortex tube, similar to mining equipment. But it's ~$1600USD.
I've looked for this before, but just for cooling air, as I get's real irritated when my eye glasses, and the shade glass fog up.

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3M has also "Adflo" battery operated system to be used with Speedglas masks & helmets.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/speedgla...mets-us/adflo/

I have used them 10 years. Now i have 9100 fx model.
Battery lasts 8 hours continous use. Filters about month to two in daily 8h welding. Helmet has seals and blower keeps positive pressure inside it, keeping dust out.

Here those are about 500$ each.

That compressed air purifier is great too, air temperature can be adjusted between cool to warmish ( with friction heater) Great option specially in hot weather.

I have used that when welding inside containers etc.
Big minus is, that you need to change filters regularly ( monthly) , even if you haven't used it very much.

I don't know why, moisture, oil or something makes it great for bacterial culture.. and when used with too old filters you get atleast a flu or infection. I have got nasty flu from it couple times, that is a good reminder.

Bonus is that three welders can use same filter, if compressor is big enough.

I have used Racal, Esab and 3M respiration systems during my 20 years in welding. 3M adflo has been most reliable, comfortable and cheapest to use.

Idea about making respirator is good, it shouldn't be difficult.
I think it should be based to use " Third party " filters.
Batteries, 3D printed casing, and a small radial blower..

From 69GTO's link, i have found the fan - its 12v and used to cool PC's. Guess what i've bought the fan to play with. I'm still thinking an old cordless drill for the power pack and charger, not using the motor as it will kill the battery in 30 mins of welding. My other attachments should still work with it so lets see how it goes.

Toumas, thanks for your input and suggestions. 3M is my weapon of choice, i have a twin filter face mask already so the plan would be to make the air breather system interchangeable between the 3M mask and the welding mask and use the 3m filters for our fans intake, how does that sound. Already have a 3D model of the filter socket so no need to reinvent the wheel.

Do you have issues with the compressed air systems filters if you take them out of the system when its not in use and keep them in ambient surroundings (eg. an office) to dry naturally and not sit in stale air which obviously causes major health issues.

As long as you have a relatively large diameter suction hose you can put the air inlet remote from the welding station, so no harmful fumes are drawn in. Then you don't need to bother with filters. Spend once on the inlet hose instead of repeatedly on filters.

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeJasonT

From 69GTO's link, i have found the fan - its 12v and used to cool PC's. Guess what i've bought the fan to play with. I'm still thinking an old cordless drill for the power pack and charger, not using the motor as it will kill the battery in 30 mins of welding. My other attachments should still work with it so lets see how it goes.

Toumas, thanks for your input and suggestions. 3M is my weapon of choice, i have a twin filter face mask already so the plan would be to make the air breather system interchangeable between the 3M mask and the welding mask and use the 3m filters for our fans intake, how does that sound. Already have a 3D model of the filter socket so no need to reinvent the wheel.

Do you have issues with the compressed air systems filters if you take them out of the system when its not in use and keep them in ambient surroundings (eg. an office) to dry naturally and not sit in stale air which obviously causes major health issues.

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That sounds good idea.
Computer fans should last well.
I checked my hw-storage and found couple interesting radial blowers from old Nvidia Gtx 260 graphic cards.
Good old days when computers run hot and cooled with a leaf blower. 😂

I think i will try to make my version too. I have couple surplus filters from old Racal respirator that i once had.
I could use same 10.8V batteries that i use with a cordless drill..

Total diy respirator could be made from:

Rechargeable work light:
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Radial computer fan:
Attachment 29533

And vacuum cleaner hepa filter:

Attachment 29534

Easy to find.

I have two Rechargeable work lights.
One of them is with three 3.7v batteries.
It would work nicely with 10.5v batteries from a drill that i have.

Electronics taken from the lamp would monitor that lithium battery
Wouldn't go totally empty. ( what would ruin the battery )

Costs for the new parts about 50-60$

I'm liking the idea. Money must grow on trees for those buying $1000 respirator systems.
The most i've spent on a car is £5000.
I like the line about the old PCs or in my case not so old, I still have one which must be the last with a parallel port and a seriously noisy fan which is almost drowned out by the constant chatter of the hard drive. I'm convinced Microsoft is deliberately slowing down win7 to get peeps to upgrade, hell they have succeeded with peripherals like printers etc - switching to 64 bit wrote of two printers (non compatible drivers).

Mike - I was thinking along the same lines. To be honest i think the air behind the operator in all likelihood is going to be pretty breathable compared to the fumes that deliberately make a bee line for your face. I have on occasion held my breath on welds - you know that's a bad thing when you are doing it. I have Jet air cleaner in the workshop https://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-afs-...-system-310483 and got seriously annoyed at the price of filters The first an anti-static thing F3 filter (i think is its level off the top of my head) is £45 to replace and the second a G4 is £10 to replace the filtration unit cost £115 to buy. Its a metal box with a £50 centrifugal fan in it. i found a supply of wadding/ cushion filling and curtain liner at at local interior store and it works perfectly as filter material, in fact better than the original filters. Weekly-ish servicing is the key, i blow my filters out with the airline on a regular basis. I plan to use a small piece of the wadding as the intake filter. https://www.bstfabrics.co.uk/Wadding---Batting/Wadding/

Update:
I have made new 3D printed parts to suit a more flexible hose the 1 1/4" hose was too rigid

Attachment 31255 Attachment 31256 Attachment 31257

I have attached the 2 STL printed part files

STL Parts

Attachment 31258 Attachment 31259

Like the suggestion from Tuomas to use a rechargeable flood light for the belt pack - so that's my next step.

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Thanks MeJasonT! We've added your Welding Respirator to our Safety category,
as well as to your builder page: MeJasonT's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-welding-respirator"> <img src="/uploads/276138/homemade-welding-respirator.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-welding-respirator">Welding Respirator</a> <span> by <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/builder/MeJasonT">MeJasonT</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/mask'>mask</a>, <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/welding'>welding</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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