Handgun purchased in Chicago Same Day as St. Valentine's Day Massacre

**tmate3** · Jun 23, 2021, 08:20 PM

I picked up this Colt Revolver a while back. It was originally purchased new in Chicago on the same day as the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, February 14, 1929.

The hardware store from which it was purchased, Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett, & Co., was located about 1 1/2 miles from the warehouse where the gangland shooting took place.

It is a Colt Police Positive model chambered for the Colt .38 New Police (.38 S&W) cartridge.

Handgun purchased in Chicago Same Day as St. Valentine's Day Massacre-colt-police-positive.jpg

**Toolmaker51** · Jun 25, 2021, 02:07 AM

Appears perfect condition. I expect current value a smidge more than original retail, $21.75? Not to mention a little provenance to go with it.
If you find a box of CCI plastic cases and projectiles, they'll operate with large pistol primers and propel the 'bullet' smartly. The hammer might have enough 'oomph' to ignite magnum primers, the increase is noticeable, but not significant. They're labeled .38 Special, but just as short as New Police/ S&W.

My Colt treasure is a pre-Trooper, named .357 Magnum with a S/N under 200. The .357 Magnum is known as a cartridge of course, but used twice as a model number, in direct yet unimaginative advertising campaigns. The first was S&W in 1935, in N-framed hand assembled 'bespoke' customs. The bare frame was $65.00. One traded last month for $18,000 with provenance tied to a Coast Guard Officer. I just saw 2 pushing $9000.

**NeiljohnUK** · Jul 6, 2021, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

My Colt treasure is a pre-Trooper, named .357 Magnum with a S/N under 200. The .357 Magnum is known as a cartridge of course, but used twice as a model number, in direct yet unimaginative advertising campaigns. The first was S&W in 1935, in N-framed hand assembled 'bespoke' customs. The bare frame was $65.00. One traded last month for $18,000 with provenance tied to a Coast Guard Officer. I just saw 2 pushing $9000.

Before we were banned from shooting such things my father had a WW1 issue Colt New Service in .455, though I preferred the over bored from .455 to .45LC cylinder N frame service revolver (with original officers name engraved the back-strap). Shot a number of .357 magnums, including King Cobra's, S&W N frame and K frames (which all suffered from cylinder/barrel bind until the spacing was redone and the barrel angle relived to create a single point of contact), still shoot .357, but only from a Mod. '94.

There are still legal revolvers in that calibre in the UK, certain Met Police units have them, and those with 'animal destruction' conditions on their firearms certificate, though most of those are modified to 2 shot only. Westlake's muzzle loading .357 is also firearm certificate legal for target shooting, based on fitting an incomplete Czech Alfa frame without cylinder with a custom UK made cylinder, the UK law prohibits modification of complete guns and only Alfa were willing to supply, so no S&W or Colt based guns can be done.

**tmate3** · Jul 6, 2021, 08:58 AM

Tough place for gun enthusiasts to live. It would be interesting to compare murder rates (by any method) in the UK vs US. I wonder whether if people don't have access to guns they merely use a knife or club instead.

**NeiljohnUK** · Jul 7, 2021, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by tmate3

Tough place for gun enthusiasts to live. It would be interesting to compare murder rates (by any method) in the UK vs US. I wonder whether if people don't have access to guns they merely use a knife or club instead.

The raw stats are UK 1.2 per 100,000 v US 5 per 100,000, and whilst the law abiding public in the UK have limited legal access to 'weapons' of all kinds the criminals have little difficulty in obtaining whatever they can afford to buy or hire, Scorpion SMG's, AK47's (we're not allowed any kind of centre fire semi-auto rifle) and lots of former Eastern Bloc handguns have been seized by the Police in raids on criminals, though more recently 'sanitised' (no serial number) Sig's and Glock's have been turning up in increasing numbers too https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/w...reats/firearms. Along with illegal manufacturing of handguns, https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/n...rearms-factory

Londonistan is in many areas a 3rd world sh'ite hole (you can read that BOTH ways) with not just drug crime related stabbings and killings, but inter-religious, even inter sect, fighting and killing on the streets on occasions, with the M4 taxi 'war' now reaching out as far as Reading and down the M3 to Basingstoke as one religious group attempts to control ALL the taxi trade (the Rotherham industrial scale sexual abuse of children relied in part on the same taxi trade take over, something our Government has kept mostly hidden for years from the general public, but as ever some Police officers do speak out, usually losing their jobs as a result), taxi's being the ideal transport system for drugs/weapons/sexual exploitation, especially where the drivers communicate in a language none of the indigenous people speak.

So in raw terms the UK is 'safer' for the criminally inclined and rich isolated from the public classes, less so for the law abiding general public (working classes), especially in the bigger depressed cities, home invasion aka 'hot' burglary with violence being much more commonplace now, and with many of the illegal immigrants (mainly males of fighting age) coming from war-zones the rates of violence have been increasing year on year.

**Toolmaker51** · Jul 9, 2021, 11:24 AM

In response to NeiljohnUK and tmate3 posts in this thread; been shown over and over that socialist-liberal-progressive laxity guarantees a breeding ground for crime at all levels. I cannot fathom how repeated and ongoing failures aren't recognized administratively, beyond generating misdirected statutes. It does nothing for the general public, restricts legal citizens, and worse yet, keeps those officials employed!

Now, the Alfa frame details made me go for a look. Found https://www.gunmart.net/gun-reviews/...elled-revolver
The exchange of revolving cylinder to a swingout [single shot] chamber was a popular modification here too, believe it or not. Typically built on large Colt double-action frame, and chambered in small centerfire cartridges; like .22 Hornet, .256 Hawkeye, .22 Remington Jet, and rarely some other necked down [wildcat] pistol cartridges. They swung on a yoke as a cylinder would, without extractor rod.
Don't know where they all went, saw but one for sale, never handled one at all. By the time I was capable, large frames were too pricey to sacrifice, cannibalize or modify so adversely.
More power was available to handguns, both traditional and single shot bolt or break actions, without cartridge length constraints like a revolver frame. The advantage of bolt or break actions, is mechanical generation of extraction [or ejection] and solid headspacing difficult to insure in revolvers. Set back of bottle necked cartridges is unavoidable, impedes opening or lock a cylinder from drag on breech face.

**NeiljohnUK** · Jul 12, 2021, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

In response to NeiljohnUK and tmate3 posts in this thread; been shown over and over that socialist-liberal-progressive laxity guarantees a breeding ground for crime at all levels. I cannot fathom how repeated and ongoing failures aren't recognized administratively, beyond generating misdirected statutes. It does nothing for the general public, restricts legal citizens, and worse yet, keeps those officials employed!

Yes and a 'banned it' country often becomes a 'bandit' country in pretty short order, I left the Ambulance Service due to a knife attack 30 years ago, but it's a lot worse now: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/155442...wo-paramedics/

Londonistan in particular is a virtual war zone in places with daily stabbings and deaths, the reference to 'stan is not without reason, and not just because of the jihadist attacks that make international headlines.