Help me find a modern use for this tool

Even as a kid, I was a tool aficionado. My Dad gave me an old Starrett tool catalogue and in it I discovered planer gauges. I had absolutely no use for one but I wanted one! Then, as now, they were brutally expensive but I loved the look of them. They shouted intricate, technical mystery and artistic form. I guess I thought it was "cool" long before that word had that connotation.

Recently I had an opportunity to buy a used planer gauge for a comfortable price, so, like all old men reliving their youth, I jumped on it.

Planer gauges were designed to set heights in a tool known as a ..wait for it...planer. For the benefit of the kids on the forum...
A planer was a large tool with a fixed table to which the work was attached. Above the table was a movable frame that carried a cutting tool. As the frame moved, this tool "planed" material from the work to produce flat surfaces. It was roughly the mechanized, metalworking equivalent of what woodworkers do when they plane a board. Planers were a tool of the early metalworking era and have largely disappeared today, replaced by large mills.

As the photos show, the tool consists of a triangular frame. The angle of the frame looks like 30 degrees but is a puzzling 26.9 deg*. The hypotenuse of the triangle has a T-slot into which is fitted a movable carrier. The carrier has a precision flat on its upper corner that can function as a variable height gauge. Two other flats, one horizontal and one vertical, have tapped holes that accept the accessory knurled extension that is a precise 2.5" in length.

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/f...he/85187-1.jpg

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/f...he/85187-2.jpg

I'm not old enough to have ever used one of these so I can't elaborate on its intended use. I'll never own or use a planer so I really don't care about how they were used in the old days.

What I'm looking for is ideas for modern uses for this tool that capitalize on its accuracy, i.e., no paperweight or doorstop suggestions. I'm looking for some creative ideas, something beyond the obvious...

square
height gauge
26.9 degree angle gauge
slot width transfer gauge
DI carrier

--
* The 26.9 deg angle puzzled me enough that I undertook to measure it accurately. Using the tool itself, I could get a fairly accurate measure of the rise/run ratio for the sliding element. The ratio came out to be 0.5071. If we take the acrtangent of that, the result is 26.889 deg, very close to the 26.9 deg I measured with an electronic inclinometer.

That ratio is suspiciously close to 0.5 (corresponding to an angle of 26.56 deg) and, given the possible errors in my measurements, it could well be that. OTOH, the utility of such a mathematically simple ratio in this tool isn't at all obvious.

As soon as our weather warms I'll set up to do a high accuracy measurement of the angle using a sine bar and report on the results.

In the meantime, I have a thread pending in HSM to see what wisdom I can glean from the clever monkeys over there.

I owe you one Marv. I've been jonesen' for one of those for years. I just assumed they were somehow for a wood planer for like making veneers or something really precise and luckily I don't have a wood planer either.

Only 3-4yrs ago did I find out about shapers upon seeing a couple on the local craigslist. At that time metal planers were mentioned but I've never seen one. I'd not put two and two together until now. So I owe you for keeping from buying another terminally cool tool that I don't have an immediate use for.

I did just find an Atlas 7b shaper that I'd expected to be to expensive but when the guy said $125 and it had everything including the vise I just couldn't pass it up. It also turns out I have several projects it's well suited for and after watching an instruction vid on it is going to be very handy for what I'm doing.

I had guessed I could use the gauge for a machinist jack, but the expense always kept away. Isn't it funny that it's for a defunct machine tool, but still is very expensive. Almost every time I see somebody selling off grandpa' old machinist tools there's one in there, and they are usually the most expensive. I guess because they look on eBay.

Mklotz and C-Bag...
Planer gauges represent a desired height, typically before the work piece is mounted. It prevents tools impacting material; instead of trying to eyeball tool path. Works in milling machines or surface grinders now, as well in planers and shapers decades ago. The incline's purpose is to allow settings in very small increments. A height gauge is used primarily; or, compared to gauge blocks with indicator, measured with micrometer, calipers etc. The expense now is usually because others are +$ too. Those opportunists scoop toolboxes at garage sales, wire brush the s__t out of it, surf ebay for like items, and slap on price tags. They're easy to spot. The description lack detail, wrong, general tripe, 'need help identifying' etc.
Sure! Where's my percentage for critical info?

Not exactly a machinist jack; but inspectors will use them in a similar manner, i.e. testing an unknown angle, with a sine bar. The incline is not steep enough to descend on it's own. They'll tap it down while traversing the part [on sine bar] with an indicator. The nicest have a fine-adjustment screw too. At evident zero, [representing hypotenuse] lock the planer gauge clamp. Measure gauge height for [side opposite] in solution of angle. Hundreds [?] of times easier than exchanging jo-blocks, feeler gauges, or the like.

So there's more. I smell a new thread. We don't charge for that here.

Not all planer gauges have the same slop angle, nor do they all have the same top slide fixture There is a guy on the PM site who gives a fairly good account of some of the other uses that he uses his for
Planer/Shaper Gage - Useage
Look for post #4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank S

Not all planer gauges have the same slop angle, nor do they all have the same top slide fixture There is a guy on the PM site who gives a fairly good account of some of the other uses that he uses his for
Planer/Shaper Gage - Useage
Look for post #4

---

Thanks for the pointer. Actually, most of the uses he mentions are already covered in my list of uses with which I am already familiar.

I'll take your word on the differing slope angles since I've never handled, much less measured, any other gauges. Nevertheless, I think it's not by accident that a respected maker like B&S would pick such an unusual, non-integerial angle. Knowing the angles of other gauges might provide some good clues to this puzzle.

Maybe it's like the Morse tapers. The original makers of the gauges were shooting for 30 degrees, missed it by a little, and the error has been dutifully reproduced by makers ever since.

Nevertheless, it's highly suspicious that the angle has a tangent so close to 0.5. As soon as I can, I'm going to attempt to measure it more accurately than I have so far. It may well be that the small deviation from 0.5 that I've seen so far is due to crudity or carelessness on the point of the inspector.

Everything on this tool is set up to be used for measuring. The little "chair" on the sliding element has a back that is precisely (3 digit) one inch and the seat is precisely 5/8" from front to back. And, as I mentioned, the length of the cylindrical extension rod is precisely 2.5". My gut feel is that, with all those built-in precision measurement features, the angle of the gauge can't be some random, accidental value.

Well, it finally warmed up and I measured the angle the way the pros do. You can see the setup and the results here...

http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/a...7213#post85264


Earlier I had measured it using a bit cruder method. That method is described in post #5 of this HSM thread...

Planer gauge angle questions

which, for your convenience, I've reproduced below...

I still haven't gotten around to measuring the angle with a sine bar but I did attempt to do something a bit more meticulous than what I did yesterday.

The movable part of the gauge has an L-shaped structure on the right side. It looks a bit like a very uncomfortable chair to me so, to simplify the description, I'll refer to it that way.

In the first picture, the center square from my combination square is being used to establish a vertical at the right edge of the triangular frame. The front edge of the "seat" of the chair is butted against the vertical, thus aligning it to the right edge of the frame. With the slider locked in this position the height of the seat above the base of the gauge was miked to be 1.021".

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/f...he/85267-1.jpg

In the second picture, a 1" spaceblock has been interposed between the edge of the seat and the center square vertical. Thus the slider has been moved horizontally a precise inch. In this position the height of the seat was miked to be 1.531"

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/f...he/85267-2.jpg

The rise/run ratio is thus 1.531 - 1.021 = 0.510. Taking the arctangent of this ratio yields an angle of 27.02 degrees, slightly larger than my cruder measurement of 26.9.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mklotz

... ideas for modern uses for this tool.

---

Hi Marv,

What timing!

I was watching a Youtube video a few days ago ("Setting Precise Angles for Woodworking"), and he talked at length about planer gauges. He uses his (mainly) to set the height of a sine bar. I thought (and you'll understand) "I gotta GIT me wunna thim!"
So I immediately found a great deal on a Starrett on ebay. Ordered and received.
You can see the video at:

https://youtu.be/2yponU6BFsA?t=664

Tim Walters
Atlanta, GA

I worked as a toolmaker for several years and have two planner gages. For the most part I've used them for measuring wide slots (just like an adjustable parallel) instead of setting tool heights.

I have 3 planer gauges. A cheap import version that I don't worry about, a Lufkin and a Pratt and Whitney (P & W bought out Lufkin and made precision tools for a short period). The Lufkin and P & W are both beautiful tools. Both have wood boxes, 2 extension posts and 2 scribes. They also both have a fine adjustment, something that seems to be rather rare. I use them occasionally, but I mostly just fondle them.

I worked as a machinist, tool maker and machine repairman for most of 40 years. The angle of the tool is not important for it's intended use. It is set to a certain height by use of a micrometer or a height gage and used to set a precise angle with a sine bar or sine plate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluegrallis

I worked as a machinist, tool maker and machine repairman for most of 40 years. The angle of the tool is not important for it's intended use. It is set to a certain height by use of a micrometer or a height gage and used to set a precise angle with a sine bar or sine plate.

---

I also worked as a Tool Maker for 35 years before retiring 2 years ago. I used them as bluegrallis did with a height gage to set precise angles on sine plates. By using, for example, a 10" sine plate, you would determine what angle you wanted to accomplish, fine the SINE of that angle, multiply that by 10 for the 10" sine plate (or 5 for a 5" sine bar). This is the height you would set the planer gage to and the let the "boss" of the sine plate/bar on it to achieve the angle. The extra bars are just extensions so you can achieve higher heights and as such, steeper angles.

OK, a bit of follow-up.

As a result of my HSM thread, several fellows measured their planer gauges' angles. They were all different; it seems each manufacturer has his own idea of what it should be. Obviously, this blows my idea that it's a useful feature out of the water. Well, it was a good thought and perhaps my discussion will inspire some toolbuilder out there to make a new and intriguing tool. Perhaps somebody learned a little about measuring angles accurately as well.

Yes, planer gauges can be used to set sinebars. I've already discussed the error implications of using something other than Jo blocks in my error analysis here...

http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/s...7695#post37510

Adjustable parallels use the same principle of operation as the planer gauge - adjustable height obtained via in inclined plane and are often used to set sine bars. I used one in measuring the planer angle here...

http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/a...7213#post85264

The planer gauge, being wider than a parallel, is perhaps a bit less prone to tilting but, other than that, works the same as a parallel.

Some planer gauges are supplied with scriber attachments similar to those for a height gauge so the tool can be used for marking out. If you don't yet have a good height gauge, it's worth making such an attachment.

And yes, bastard threads are the norm. The rod on my B&S has a thread that doesn't seem to fit anything on my inferial thread gauge. It does thread into the 5 x 0.5 mm hole but I can't believe B&S would use metric. It's 0.18" diameter which is close to a #10 size but 0.5 mm pitch is close to 50 tpi, a long way from the UNF 32, and AFAIK, there is no #10 UNEF specification. The whole affair is maddening.

Marv,

Just a comment on your description on what a planer is - I've only ever seen planers whose beds move under the gantry to which the cutting tool is mounted. There are a few youtube videos by people who have restored them - fascinating, like a shaper but usually capable of much bigger work. Just goes to show how incomplete my education has been!

Also, a vote of thanks for all your contributions to our knowledge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

Marv,

Just a comment on your description on what a planer is - I've only ever seen planers whose beds move under the gantry to which the cutting tool is mounted. There are a few youtube videos by people who have restored them - fascinating, like a shaper but usually capable of much bigger work. Just goes to show how incomplete my education has been!

Also, a vote of thanks for all your contributions to our knowledge.

---

Thanks for that. I could swear I've seen photos of one that operated as I described but, as they say, a mind is a terrible thing to lose. Yes, the table, not the gantry, moves. Here's a nice video of one in operation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMUhOX32qpk

Regardless of what moves and what is stationary, the effect on the workpiece is the same.

Now that is a Planer! I was wondering if a planer gauge could be used to accurately set Jointer blades with an adapter the width of the blades?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJs

Now that is a Planer! I was wondering if a planer gauge could be used to accurately set Jointer blades with an adapter the width of the blades?

---

Instead I'd use a surface gage & a test indicator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJs

Now that is a Planer! I was wondering if a planer gauge could be used to accurately set Jointer blades with an adapter the width of the blades?

---

You probably could use it to set jointer blades but I would think building something like this...

Planer Knife Setting Jig - For Full Size Planers; Pair - Jointer & Planer Accessories - Jointing & Planing

would work better and provide some fun time in the shop. Two micrometer heads, a couple of magnets and some bits of aluminum and you've got yourself a homemade tool to display in the forum.

Thanks Dr. Stan and Marv for your input. It occurred to me that if one knew the height from the drum quadrant to the table locked in place and the height the blade needed to be from the drum, a bar (attachment) could be used on a Planer Gauge to the edge of the blade and then leave full room to get your wrench in there.

I recently acquired a late 60's (Heavy Iron ~250lbs) American WJ-6 Jointer, although it's made in Taiwan it's a beast with a 12A motor. Even though it made a piece of rough 4" walnut, baby but smooth in 3 passes when I picked it up, I know I will need to go through this process during cleanup and dial in. It had been in a horse stall for a couple of years, covered.

Perhaps I can come up with a novel and proper way to set these blades, Marv. Will definitely post if/when I do. It does seem to me that the setup in your link having only 2 thou accuracy could be improved on and may have some issues with cosine depending on placement on the drum and contact with the head of the micrometer. On a 6" blade its not much especially for wood working but when you take into account multiple blades the finish/flatness could suffer. Of course I'm probably over analyzing this but enjoy the process...besides I still need to find a manual for this thing to know what the blade height is supposed to be. :rolleyes:

Thinking out loud here. Remember, I've never used a jointer (although I understand what the tool does.)

You don't really need the micrometer heads, just a fine screw and some sort of lock for it. Say X is the desired blade height above table. Make up space/Jo block stack of height X, With stack on flat surface, bridge stack with tool, turn down screw until magnet contacts stack, then lock screw.

Now loosen blade lock screws, bridge each end of blade with one of these gadgets, let magnets suck blade up to proper height. Tighten blade lock screws and you're done.

I probably missed one or a few nuances but that should give you the general idea.

Micrometer heads would be nice; not critical. There are many convenient metric diameter and thread combinations that will impart fine settings. Intuition says magnets are the ticket; if direct contact/ impact is not allowed, especially neodymium. Planer blades likely are 65c Rockwell, assuring chipped cutting edges.
A possible design.
Two sections of tubing bored to fit the drum diameter; part way around. Whatever projection intended, set by a wiregauge between drum and brass tipped screw. Then it is moved over the blade bottomed out in it's slot, clamp loosened, blade pulled up by magnet, and re-clamped?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJs

Now that is a Planer! I was wondering if a planer gauge could be used to accurately set Jointer blades with an adapter the width of the blades?

---

There is obviously some confusion in this thread due to the same name applied to a wood planner and a metal planner. They are designed very differently and thus operate very differently.

It would be very inappropriate to use a planner gage to attempt to set the cutting blades of a wood planner or a jointer. As previously pointed out their blades are quite hard in order to maintain a sharp cutting edge. The planner gage is also quite hard, but not as hard as a planner blade. In any case both the cutting blade and the planner gage would be damaged using this method.

There are various tools to use in setting these blades, but nothing will beat a test indicator on a surface gage. All of the other methods employ feel to some extent and thus some error, which is eliminated by using the indicator & surface gage.

I did a bit of research via the interweb. The folks at Find Woodworking magazine seem to know what they're doing and they use magnets...

Jointer Knife-Setting Jig - FineWoodworking

This fellow had a magnet jig and graduated to a more mathematical approach to height setting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvbfdzkPPSg

which is described more completely here...

https://woodgears.ca/jointer/knives.html

It seems there are numerous approaches that depend to some extent on the design of the cutter head - jack screws or springs.

Excellent Marv, Thank You. I've never owned a "Wood Jointer" before and only used a friends maybe a dozen or so times myself. It was always set up already and have never gone through the blade/sharpening/setup for one. This info gives me some grounding to go in there with less fear of messing up. The videos were a bit conflicting as to what is proper height (Flush with table (out feed) or slightly above. It makes sense about the above to me for the reasons indicated and liked his simple math. I think I am well armed now with at least a starting point...and do like the magnet idea. Thank you again for your diligent and helpful research!!

The only thing I have done at this point with it is to remove the rust (surface, no pitting) and waxed the tables. I inspected the blades and they look good but didn't have a look as to the type of hold downs but think they are simple old school, based on the vintage. I need to replace the house light switch some one used in place of the original ON/OFF contactor and go through the table adjusts and check the bearings and odds & sods bit better.

Thanks Dr. Stan, There does seem to be some confusion about naming these types of tools, and have to confess they get to me sometimes too. Marv's previous video specifically said "Metal Planer" and there was some discussion of the moving table vs moving head. In the case of Jointer's and Planer's (wood or metal) the material is moved through a cutting head, where as Shaper's, as far as I know (Very Little), the head moves across the work. To me a metrology tool can be used for whatever purpose (wood, metal, plastic or cardboard) needed to measure something. As some one once said on an Indiana Jones movie "Choose Wisely". My suggestion for using a Planer gauge with a modified straight edge attachment on a Wood Jointer would not be any different that using a DI/DTI or Height/surface gauge on wood and effective in both cases. It was only a suggested alternate for Marv's "Use" question that seemed pertinent to something I had been pondering.

I use them on my die set to set the heights of the punch to die top also press shut height.
thanks jimbo

In a blatant effort driving traffic to Shop Truths...and Outright Lies, I'm posting the third largest machine [a planer] ever had some association to.
1st. Betts-Bridgeford 60'' swing, 85'6'' centers CNC shaft lathe. Along with it's 6 steady rests, and 2 [yes two] individual headstocks @ 50hp each, plus three independent carriages w/ taper attachments. Full length just over 130'.
Installed across from a Ferrell 70'' x 70', a peanut with a mere single headstock and carriage, 100 horsepower and 55t capacity tailstock. NO clue of Morse Taper.

2nd. Also Betts, a Vertical Turret Lathe. Pit mounted, table flush to floor. 20' max swing 10'6'' under the rail, dual 48'' tool rams, max load 165t at .75 RPM. Yes 3/4 of a rotation per minute, in range of her .32-12.8 RPM. Most remarkable was feed rate .004 to 1.5 IPR! Toolbits bigger than your noggin.

3rd. You'll just have to go look.
I will say that circa 1997 every US citizen owned a part of these, and the 254 encompassing acres, til a misguided Clinton and the BRAC decided otherwise. More recently privatization would be the solution.
That post will go in tonight 13Feb2017
Or not. Some issues kept deadline from such definite entry posting,
In there now! http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/s...-lies-42152-12
It's post #120.
Thanks to HMT.net and her participants. This carries sincere appreciation in having a medium, the means, and a community to relate with and to.