The Philosophy of What We Do

[Tom Kurth]

Oh boy, oh boy! Where to start? Another fng here, but I'm not too bashful so I'll just throw right in. I'm not gonna try to organize this and it's gonna be something of a ramble, but there seems to be others like me here. As I was reading this thread I knew I would have to respond because so much said is near and dear to me. I scribbled some notes and am going to respond in such order as I found things without resorting to pulling up quotes.

1) My wife's onetime aunt worked at Rocky Mountain Flats nuclear installation as a draftsman. For several years after her retirement, they kept calling her back to do on paper what the kids couldn't do on computers with the fanciest of CAD programs.

2) I may catch flack for this, but oldtimers have been complaining about 'kids these days' ever since there have been 'kids' and probably since there have been 'days.' And they've been saying for just as long "They just don't build 'em like they used to." In my experience in the building and cabinet trades, especially from remodeling, I know this: There have ALWAYS been butchers out there--it's just that their stuff hasn't stood the test of time, only the well-made stuff is still around. And someday soon those 'kids' are going to turn into the oldtimers saying the same things. Our responsibility is to pass on as best we can what we have learned to whoever is willing to learn it. My 20-year-old just started working part time at the cabinet shop where I'm employed. He's doing well and I think it is likely that he will stay there even after he finishes auto tech school, mostly because he has learn that modern mechanics is about diagnostic machines and electronics: He is a hands on guy. He will continue to do well because of the work ethic he has learned at home. I've had the pleasure of training others like him, but so many who end up in the trades are there because of personality flaws, the druggies, the flakes and the lazy asses. Schools see the trades as yesterday's news and steer the 'good' ones to where the money is. There have been a couple come through that I encouraged to go to specialty schools like College of the Redwoods or North Bennett Street School but those kids are few and far between.
3)The categories of workman are something I've long thought about. I've come to this conclusion. There is a hierarchy in the trades: laborer, craftsman, artisan, and artist. We all start at the one end, and hopefully, achieve some higher station. The one thing sure is that respect is earned by the WAY one works, not the job in which he is ensconced.
4)I echo Lou Gehrig when he said "I am the luckiest man alive." I was well on the way to a teaching degree when I figured out that academia wasn't for me. I was lucky to land in the building trade, but wasn't smart enough to recognize that I had found my passion. I strayed away, tried going back to school, did factory work and supervision and finally by accident found my way back to cabinetry. Now I am accomplished in my trade, respected by bosses and co-workers, and happier than I deserve. To anyone who isn't as happy, I can only say "Find your passion!"

5)Regarding complaints about schools these days: Much of what's wrong with schools today, IMHO, lies in three areas. First, schools today are expected to do much more than simply educate. In the modern family where economic necessity demands two incomes, much of what is expected of teachers falls into the category of 'child-rearing.' Second, there is way too much emphasis on sports and activities at the expense of academics. In the small high school my son attended about half of the staff were coaches of some sort and their value as coaches far out-weighed their worth in the classroom. Third, the endless mantra of testing and 'accountability' driven, at least in part, by conservative politics and liberal sensibilities, means that educators have a greater priorities than teaching and learning.

6)When my son finishes his automotive degree, the starting wage in that industry will make his two years at tech school almost worthless. People keep preaching about the jobs available in the trades, but so many of those jobs don't pay a living wage to start. Until wages for working folks improve, our status as a nation will decline. ( Sorry, trying to avoid things political.)

7)I, too, found myself thinking of 'Zen and the Art . . .'

8)'Designers who have never built.' Boy, that raises some hackles. Our designer at work has no sense of proportion at all. I get a line drawing and then have the wonderful task of fitting her ideas into some semblance of reality. GRRR!

9)A lot of teachers, both in schools and out, fail to teach the basic logic of their subjects. I learned more about algebra from a 1930's textbook than I did in school in the '70's. If my teacher had started out by explaining the '=' in the middle and what it really meant, everything else would have flowed from there. The same teacher did much better with geometry because he assumed we knew nothing at all and he was right. As an English major in college, it was not until a senior level class, English Language and Linguistics, that I was finally exposed to the flawed logic that imposes Latin grammar (highly inflected) on the
English language which has very little inflection left from its Teutonic roots. English, because of its emphasis on word order, has an elegant logic to it that few seem to understand. In the end it works much like algebra with the verb being the '='.

OK, my ranting and raving and rambling are done. Nice to meet you all.

Best,
Tom

[rgsparber]

Tom,

Initially I was put off by your warning plus the length of your text. But ended up reading and agreeing with all of it. Nicely written!

Rick

[Tom Kurth]

Thanks, Rick.

There was an interesting article in the KC Star this AM that dovetails nicely with some of what has been discussed here. It's available at Subscription & Delivery Info | KansasCity.com & The Kansas City Star. Look for Cindy Hoedel's column, 'KC Furniture Business . . .' Some of 'what we do' may need to transform from larger to smaller business formats, but I firmly believe that quality, hand-made products will always be in demand at some level.

Best,
Tom

Oops! I guess they won't let me link like that without everyone having subscriptions. T
he gist of the article was that a guy who was one of the premier custom furniture builders in KC gave his business to a young guy who had done an unpaid apprenticeship with him. The young fellow had wanted to learn hand woodworking after getting an art and design degree. There are places for handcraft and there are still people willing to learn it if we can just connect those with knowledge with those with desire.

[Hsixpac]

Hey there from another new guy. Even though im not quite 40 yet, i see evidence of this everyday as a service manager for a bus place. Kids here who are "trained techs" think im some kind of special fabricator because i can weld and actually build or rebuild parts. Its disgusting, what i do would be common sense and expected in shops in my dads day or they wouldnt have a job. But all these "tech" schools are turning out are parts changers now.

BMW realized this problem and they have come up with the ultimate solution (and end of decent paying skilled tech jobs). Its a set of goggles that literally diagnoses the car (from the scantool of course) then points on the goggle screen- loosen this bolt with a 10mm wench and turn clockwise. Basically you could give the janitor a pair of these goggles and he could do timing belt change in the same amount of time as one of their "certified techs). Its officially the end of an era im afraid.

[C-Bag]

I think the Maker movement is the logical progression of what started on YouTube with guys like mrpete222 and oxtools, and cncnyc and tons of other. Mr. Pete/tubalcain is the man. Taking his lifetime experience of being a machinist then shop teacher and in his retirement, pouring it all into video lessons that are just excellent.

I learned long ago when I couldn't find anybody who could teach me jazz guitar that I just need the info in a good organized manner. It's my effort that makes the difference. A teacher would be great, but if I couldn't find one I'll take a good book. And now even better is a video.

I'm not a teacher but my impression of young folks is they have only been trained to be consumers. And have been bombarded from a very early age to be ADD. Watch tv. Ever notice that the scene and POV change every 9seconds or less? This is by design and it trains the average person to not be able stay with anything. To make anything takes time, thought and planning. But more and more I'm seeing the other end of the spectrum what has been called Aspergers Syndrome. My son being one. They don't have the need for social interaction and are focused more than probably seems normal. With him it was all about finding what he was interested in(besides video games) and fostering that interest. As long as I found the proper starting point and kept ahead of him with the next part of what he needed to learn, he would just chew through what most of us regular folks would take years in months.

He worked with me at a YMCA camp one summer when he was 12, living in a tent with teenagers. I was the maintence director and he saw first hand how out in the boonies you could do good if you applied some forethought and was aware of everything around you. Knew something was wearing out and going south so the next time you were in civilization you get what you needed to fix it when you got back. This dillegence led him to the realization applied hardwork pays off.

He discovered anime at this time and wanted to be able to draw those characters. I got him a little book "How to draw Marvel Characters". He worked for hours and hours out of that book trying to draw stick figures on computer paper he would take out of my printer. As I was walking by and looked at what he was doing he looked up at me with tears in his eyes and said "I'll never be able to do this". I said "Chuck, art is like anything else 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration.....its just hard work." I thought such a worn out platitude would just bounce off and be dismissed but he just looked at me a long time as that sunk in and went back to work to my surprise. As soon as he had that down he asked me what he should do next and I told him the thing that tripped me up was anatomy. I found "Anatomy for the Artist" a huge hard bound book being blown out for cheap for him and he spent years working out of that. He's worked for Marvel and DC and Darkhorse and other comic co's. And what sets him a part besides his expertise in anatomy is his background is manual art, not digital. Both of which is in short supply in artists his age.

How can these young folks not come out thinking that they shouldn't be living in a house like they grew up in and everybody on tv is living in? Along with all the stuff that comes with it? I think a lot of us didn't grow up in a world that seemed to be so magic. Where even the poorest person seems to have a cell and a huge flat screen tv.

My kids grew up without any network tv and saw us struggle to make ends meet. I stayed home with them until they started school because as a mechanic I didn't have health insurance or a wage that could support a family of four but my teacher wife did. They still didn't have a perception of what the world of work is or what it would be by the time they got there. But both of them don't have the short attention span that seems the norm nowadays. More than anything I wanted them to be critical thinkers and to me that's where the schools have failed. The aim it would seem is just manufacture consumers. I found the 6pt doc "the Century of the Self" by the BBC on YouTube very interesting.

My "problem" was I wasn't raised a consumer. My grandparents were farmers and that made my parents more self reliant I think. And our high school had a track system that put kids of like IQ in the same track so I wasn't educated as a consumer. So I kept coming up against the fact that what I wanted was most times not available or as often as not of poor design/quality. When people talk about freedom, sorry, I don't see it in the marketplace. I see "stuff" but often I have to modify or change the design because that's all that available. I've tried to offer my "improvements" to the manufacturers but either they don't value it or nobody is really paying attention. I'm just glad the net came along and there are places like HMT where I can learn and share my creative approachs to get 'er done and hopefully others can get 'er done too.

[Frank S]

I guess that I am no longer a new guy and I am for sure not one of the longtime members Tonight is actually the first time I sat and read this thread.
This reply is going to be long and I hope not too boring
I must say there have been many valid points brought up structured towards the explanation of what is wrong in society as a whole today.
However I feel we have so far not fully addressed one of the root causes of how the USA for one has strayed from a builder society to a consumer society.
I believe much of it started with the advent of the production assembly line mentality. Latter spurred even further by the Unions workers on assembly lines were taught very specific skill sets related to the job at which they were to work at and hardly ever cross trained to other tasks.
TO explain this form a personal experience A young man once came to my shop desiring employment I was busy with 3 lathes going all manual by the way so I asked my wife who at the time had a band saw and a radial drill press going to aske the man a few questions about his skills and how he felt that his becoming an employee in our small machine and fabrication shop would be an asset to us.
He started in telling her that he was a long time member of the local ### whatever and that he had been a welder for 5 years on an assembly line in **** company.
OK, she said you say you are a welder did you bring your hood, gloves and a few other tools so you can take a welding test?
No I don’t own any tools or a hood I never needed my own at **** company they furnished everything.
I see, she said weld what type of welding can you do can you use a stick welder as well as a mig welder or how about a tig welder?
UH, I don’t know he said all I have ever done was use a spot welder.
What else can you do besides run a spot welder? Just a minute I have to reset the band saw and change a bit on the drill press.
I took shop in school but haven’t done anything like they taught us since I went to work for **** company.
Well we really need a couple of part time welders who can weld light tubing and some structural steel, all none coded work so you wouldn’t have to worry about being certified Frank does all of the critical welding that might require coded welding Would you like to take a simple welding test? Just a minute, Frank do you want me to have him take a welding test and could he borrow one of the hoods in the office?
Yeah OK I said.
How do I turn on the machine?
You flip that switch right there and hold this gun simply pull the trigger when you want to weld.
Well after he had wasted countless feet of welding wire and shorted out 2 contact tips he finally managed to burn more holes in the 2” sq. tubing than he made welds, My wife concluded that he just wouldn’t work out in our small shop. I finished with what I was doing on the lathes and rook a few minutes to give him a few pointers on how to weld. After a few more false starts he managed to be able to make a fairly decent bead. We hired him for part time work A year later when he was called back to the company that his Union had been out on strike for He went from being a line spot welder to a Plant maintenance trouble shooter /repairman.

[Toolmaker51]

So pleased to find this thread; but not surprised. The HMT.net impact is personal; whether as contributor or receiver. And both sides mention desire to foster interest in the young. There is a pool of such students available, beginning with middle schoolers, that extends right through high school. The program is literally worldwide.
Familiar with or heard of Dean Kamen? He's a remarkable engineer, with all sorts of recognizable products in use. I believe he was producing a medical product in his parents basement before graduating high school. Around 25 years ago, he set out doing exactly what this thread leans to. Mentorship is keystone of his organization, and YOU have skills needed by students drawn to their local build site. He addresses the same issues identified in this thread; by connecting desire with a well (perfectly) developed goal structure. That desire might be just a spark, or a established skillset. Very little "everybody's a winner" PC nonsense, the rewards are attained, not just passed out. It even holds an extensive scholarship program. You'll be amazed at who's who in the corporate support; realizing education alone is not going to repopulate an aging workforce.

FIRST Robotics Competition | FIRST

At this site; the opening picture is a hint. One (or more) of those kids almost certainly never had handled a hack saw, seen a caliper, threaded a nut and bolt together, wired an arduino, or helped to create a semi-autonomous robot. This isn't BattleBots, because the rounds continue from local to world finals, but I guarantee, every bit as tense. Failure or breakdown doesn't create instantaneous elimination; the kids are so enthused to re-enter I've seen near complete rebuilds between rounds. Even if they're drawn to participate other than in mechanic/ technical aspects; successful teams are composed to conduct a 'business unit' 'safety team' 'inventory control' 'documentation' even 'advertising' groups.
That's why YOU have skills that will benefit a team. And then a few weeks later, poof it's done! And next year, many team members return. They'll enter a meet that utilizes a specific but attainable set of regulations. FIRST (capitalized and bold as a trademark) characterizes the atmosphere as one of ''coopertition", mashing up cooperative competition. The general game occurs every year, but the task changes.
I'll urge any interested parties; gauge their commitment to expanding our family of craftspeople and contact a local team base via the site.

[Big Jake]

I have been reading posts in this forum for some time, and I think this is the first time I have replied/posted. So much of what I have read I find I am in complete agreement. I find that too many of our young people lack skills or even an interest in learning to advance their personal interests. I have been an engineer for 42 years and I contribute much of my success to my pre-engineering life. During those years, my duties involved helping my father with many projects. I recall one day he came home with a new (new to us but removed from a house scheduled for demolition) with a new furnace. I was his helper, but I knew nothing about installing a furnace. The amount of learning was huge. I learned things I still apply today. I think this translates into my engineering skills. I am a power systems engineer, designing really big current carrying components, which can be though of as a macroscopic version of printed circuit board design. Those skills I learned in my pre-engineering days show up in my present design projects. Some of my best young engineers working for me had a similar pre-engineering life of working with Dad or something similar. It is all about knowing how to think. I believe that thinking process is something innate in the individual and has always been there. I have remarked to my associates, "I don't remember not knowing that" which I explain as innate knowledge. That earlier post on finding your passion and following it is probably nothing more than matching that innate ability to a profession.

Some years ago, I taught part time at a local community college. I wanted the students to learn why, but some of them were only interested in looking in the book to find a similar problem to aid them in answering the homework questions. Those students would never push themselves beyond the present. That position did not last too long, as I was told the students did not like the "why" approach. The "why" approach is also illustrated by the tools in their place and a place for everything. See, it all fits together. Following that experience, I was involved with a local college's continuing education program. The "why" approach worked well there because most students wanted to know the background. Unfortunately, the program did not generate sufficient revenue and my contribution was no longer required.

I summary, I can agree with everything which has been written here. Today's children do not make their own way. Too much is given to them, and they are not required to forge their own way and that is unfortunate. Today's philosophy says, "there is an app for that."

[Big Jake]

I have been reading posts in this forum for some time, and I think this is the first time I have replied/posted. So much of what I have read I find I am in complete agreement. I find that too many of our young people lack skills or even an interest in learning to advance their personal interests. I have been an engineer for 42 years and I contribute much of my success to my pre-engineering life. During those years, my duties involved helping my father with many projects. I recall one day he came home with a new (new to us but removed from a house scheduled for demolition) with a new furnace. I was his helper, but I knew nothing about installing a furnace. The amount of learning was huge. I learned things I still apply today. I think this translates into my engineering skills. I am a power systems engineer, designing really big current carrying components, which can be though of as a macroscopic version of printed circuit board design. Those skills I learned in my pre-engineering days show up in my present design projects. Some of my best young engineers working for me had a similar pre-engineering life of working with Dad or something similar. It is all about knowing how to think. I believe that thinking process is something innate in the individual and has always been there. I have remarked to my associates, "I don't remember not knowing that" which I explain as innate knowledge. That earlier post on finding your passion and following it is probably nothing more than matching that innate ability to a profession.

Some years ago, I taught part time at a local community college. I wanted the students to learn why, but some of them were only interested in looking in the book to find a similar problem to aid them in answering the homework questions. Those students would never push themselves beyond the present. That position did not last too long, as I was told the students did not like the "why" approach. The "why" approach is also illustrated by the tools in their place and a place for everything. See, it all fits together. Following that experience, I was involved with a local college's continuing education program. The "why" approach worked well there because most students wanted to know the background. Unfortunately, the program did not generate sufficient revenue and my contribution was no longer required.

I summary, I can agree with everything which has been written here. Today's children do not make their own way. Too much is given to them, and they are not required to forge their own way and that is unfortunate. Today's philosophy says, "there is an app for that."