Recycled steel if you can find any.

Hi All
With the high cost of steel, I have resorted to using any old steel I can lay my hands on be it from scrap yards, skips, material I have been given or lying around or any other means.
I called a local material stock holder who is very well priced. Well I had bit of a shock when getting a quote for some mild steel bar, for a project I wanted to start. After checking out prices else were the prices quoted were very competitive but out of my price range. So, after waiting a couple of months a piece of material turned up in a skip the exacact size I required. So, dragged it out (a bit rusty and had quite a few holes drilled in to it) but I was so happy with the find, As can be seen from the photos I was able to cut the pieces require for the project, missing the previously drilled holes in the bar.
The piece of bar is 50 x 50 by about 600mm long bright mild steel. grade unknown. The price of a new 3m length, I was quoted £200.00 + vat (well I nearly fell of my chair, good job I didn't have my head in a skip I would have fallen in lol, I honestly thought they had made a mistake.) I was expecting a price of £40/60 + vat.
Here are some photos of the find, and how I cleaned the stock faces up on a home made lapping plate which holds an emery cloth taught on a flat steel plate. The 1” linisher is used to de-burr the sawn ends and the lapping plate removes any dings and dents that might be present on the bar. I do this even to new stock material as you can’t guarantee the bar has not been damaged from the stockist and I dont want to transfer the dents from the material on to the machine vice or machine table.
Anyway, always on the look out for useful stock for the workshop but even more so now.
As can be seen once cleaned up a big money saver and still have a few cut offs left over for other projects.

Attachment 21795 Off cuts left over

Attachment 21796 linisher

Attachment 21797 Home made lapping plate

Attachment 21798 Required material cut and de-burred ready to used and the remaining offcuts

Thank you for taking the time to view and happy hunting.
The Home Engineer

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thehomeengineer,

You saved yourself a lot of money finding this scrap steel.

I looked at the price of a 2"x2"x120" piece of new hot rolled mild steel (ASTM A-36) in two 5 foot sections (which is less expensive than any other cold rolled steel) and the price was $225 without shipping charges.

Luckily, I have friends who manufacture with cold rolled steel, mild hot rolled steel, 316 stainless steel and silicon bronze. Ironically they now have to pay to have their scrap hauled away in CA. They are willing to have me remove whatever I need at no cost.

As compensation, we pay for dinner with our wives and we all enjoy the time out.

Regards,

Paul Jones

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Jones

thehomeengineer,

You saved yourself a lot of money finding this scrap steel.

I looked at the price of a 2"x2"x120" piece of new hot rolled mild steel (ASTM A-36) in two 5 foot sections (which is less expensive than any other cold rolled steel) and the price was $225 without shipping charges.

Luckily, I have friends who manufacture with cold rolled steel, mild hot rolled steel, 316 stainless steel and silicon bronze. Ironically they now have to pay to have their scrap hauled away in CA. They are willing to have me remove whatever I need at no cost.

As compensation, we pay for dinner with our wives and we all enjoy the time out.

Regards,

Paul Jones

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Ha! Paul
The first time I heard the CA did something stupid and someone benefits from it.

Here where I live in Florida we have to big fab shops, the one wants what ever the book says it cost plus cutting. the other is a bigger shop that has their hands in it

all, and have a lot of drops from cut off and from CNC production jobs. When I go there they ask what I'm looking for and lead me right to the GOOD STUFF. They tell

be 5 buck or something close to that and I'm on my way. The 2X2 you bought, quite a few years ago I got a machine that had a cantilever set up to counter the heavy

weigh and in the two tube columns was a 2.125 X 2.125 over 6 foot, I got two of them and cut a piece and go to cutting on it. Love that salvage side.

Enjoy all you do

Nelson

Hi Paul/Nelson
With the exchange rate USA to UK it is cheaper but still a lot of money (in my opinion). Often when doing a web search, it will bring up USA sites and it is noticeable the prices are a lot cheaper for you guys, and the choices are better. What I like about the USA is the fact you can buy almost anything you need at competitive prices on have it shipped/posted at cheap rates, and the Americans do seem to make quality tools. I have ordered from the US before and even with shipping costs it is still cheaper than buying in the UK. Just have to wait a bit longer but even that is getting a lot better. Cannot believe you have to pay to have scrap taken away. Scrap steel price in the UK is about £180.00 per/ton Copper is about £3000.00 per/ton so we are still weighing in.
Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and the comments made.
The Home Engineer

Nice addition to your shop... :O)

I always hit the metal recyclers resell section. We get cheap metal and they get a decent price. Both win. Amazing what they can have at times. Gearboxes, motors etc.

I use a piece of 1/4" plate glass as a lapping plate with grinding paste as the abrasive. Cheap and easily replaced when the surface is no longer true and it can be as large or small as needed.

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

Attachment 21797
Home made lapping plate
The Home Engineer

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I'll add a tip for those building a lapping plate of their own. Dry paper and wet or dry both work well.
In hand lapping, strokes taken in a straight line often results in the corners out of plane, even circular movements aren't ideal.
Proper lapping is best done in figure 8 patterns, and periodically alter the hold 90° too.
A good way to interpret attained degree of 'flatness' is easy. Take one easy single linear stroke; then re-orient 45° with another single linear stroke about HALF the distance of prior stroke. You will see fine, evenly distributed scratches 45° to each other; just like a properly honed engine cylinder. It sometimes helps to dye a few places with red or blue permanent marker [felt tip pen].

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Jones

thehomeengineer,

You saved yourself a lot of money finding this scrap steel.

I looked at the price of a 2"x2"x120" piece of new hot rolled mild steel (ASTM A-36) in two 5 foot sections (which is less expensive than any other cold rolled steel) and the price was $225 without shipping charges.

Luckily, I have friends who manufacture with cold rolled steel, mild hot rolled steel, 316 stainless steel and silicon bronze. Ironically they now have to pay to have their scrap hauled away in CA. They are willing to have me remove whatever I need at no cost.

As compensation, we pay for dinner with our wives and we all enjoy the time out.

Regards,

Paul Jones

---

now that's what i call a win win Paul: good on all of you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

Hi All
With the high cost of steel, I have resorted to using any old steel I can lay my hands on be it from scrap yards, skips, material I have been given or lying around or any other means.
I called a local material stock holder who is very well priced. Well I had bit of a shock when getting a quote for some mild steel bar, for a project I wanted to start. After checking out prices else were the prices quoted were very competitive but out of my price range. So, after waiting a couple of months a piece of material turned up in a skip the exacact size I required. So, dragged it out (a bit rusty and had quite a few holes drilled in to it) but I was so happy with the find, As can be seen from the photos I was able to cut the pieces require for the project, missing the previously drilled holes in the bar.
The piece of bar is 50 x 50 by about 600mm long bright mild steel. grade unknown. The price of a new 3m length, I was quoted £200.00 + vat (well I nearly fell of my chair, good job I didn't have my head in a skip I would have fallen in lol, I honestly thought they had made a mistake.) I was expecting a price of £40/60 + vat.
Here are some photos of the find, and how I cleaned the stock faces up on a home made lapping plate which holds an emery cloth taught on a flat steel plate. The 1” linisher is used to de-burr the sawn ends and the lapping plate removes any dings and dents that might be present on the bar. I do this even to new stock material as you can’t guarantee the bar has not been damaged from the stockist and I dont want to transfer the dents from the material on to the machine vice or machine table.
Anyway, always on the look out for useful stock for the workshop but even more so now.
As can be seen once cleaned up a big money saver and still have a few cut offs left over for other projects.

Attachment 21795 Off cuts left over

Attachment 21796 linisher

Attachment 21797 Home made lapping plate

Attachment 21798 Required material cut and de-burred ready to used and the remaining offcuts

Thank you for taking the time to view and happy hunting.
The Home Engineer

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For lapping /sharpening I use a granite section( I used to use glass) with wet & dry: I cut off the granite piece from a piece of kitchen bench with an old wet daimond makita saw.

We are not supposed to scavenge but i occasionally pick up something from the recycle yard . costs nothing to dump steel, aluminium, & paper here but they sting us for green rubbish & other stuff. A boot load (even for a small compact) is about AU $20 & small box trailers go up from there.

I used to buy steel (quality BHP) back in the 70's, for Brisbane City Council (at that time it was the third biggest council in the world=20 councils amalgamated to form the large municipality in 1925) for under $200 a ton for black & some bright & anything over $200 had to go to "stores board" for ratification or clearance. A ton of 316 or 318 stainless was less than $1000 so didn't have to be ratified by full Council meeting. Quality at a reasonable price-inflation.

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troll Hunter

I use a piece of 1/4" plate glass as a lapping plate with grinding paste as the abrasive. Cheap and easily replaced when the surface is no longer true and it can be as large or small as needed.

Mike

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Plate Glass is one of the better & economical 'flats' available. But 1/4" has a degree of flexibility. If your local home improvement store has 12" x 12" marble floor tiles, those are not bad either. They are lesser cost; thicker than double strength glass, and edges don't chip so easily.
Its a good idea frame your lap; 1] to attach paper retainers 2] provide means to secure the plate to a work surface 3] reinforce plate into a dependable plane.
If flatter yet is desired, use 3 plates to cross check intended plate. Glass or marble will respond to loose abrasives in water or oil slurry.
Working 3 plates is THE classic method of producing true flat. Unsure who created it but an early important use was by Joseph Whitworth. They didn't have means to measure how flat, but it was later realized he was attaining millionths ~.000005 or better.

To lap parts correctly, the part hardness should exceed that of the lap. The abrasives work by embedding themselves - 'charging' - the lap. Interpreting something like Moh's Scale will show glass harder than metals in general. Grooved cast iron is very common material for lap plates and certain cylindrical applications, but copper and soft steel show up in more hole laps than iron.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

Plate Glass is one of the better & economical 'flats' available. But 1/4" has a degree of flexibility. If your local home improvement store has 12" x 12" marble floor tiles, those are not bad either. They are lesser cost; thicker than double strength glass, and edges don't chip so easily.
Its a good idea frame your lap; 1] to attach paper retainers 2] provide means to secure the plate to a work surface 3] reinforce plate into a dependable plane.
If flatter yet is desired, use 3 plates to cross check intended plate. Glass or marble will respond to loose abrasives in water or oil slurry.
Working 3 plates is THE classic method of producing true flat. Unsure who created it but an early important use was by Joseph Whitworth. They didn't have means to measure how flat, but it was later realized he was attaining millionths ~.000005 or better.

To lap parts correctly, the part hardness should exceed that of the lap. The abrasives work by embedding themselves - 'charging' - the lap. Interpreting something like Moh's Scale will show glass harder than metals in general. Grooved cast iron is very common material for lap plates and certain cylindrical applications, but copper and soft steel show up in more hole laps than iron.

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Here by chance we can found about every flat glass piece in the recycling area, just to come before it's broken by the next one…

There is nothing like putting a new sheet of emery cloth on to the lapping plate. It’s like getting in to a bed with fresh bedsheets .:lol:
Attachment 34746Old sheet been removed.

Attachment 34747New sheet ready for action

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

There is nothing like putting a new sheet of emery cloth on to the lapping plate. It’s like getting in to a bed with fresh bedsheets .:lol:

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In that case, I recommend switching to different brand of fabric softener....
Some other quips come to mind, so now is the time to run; Save Yourselves!

Hi Toolmaker51
I think I need to get out more I must be getting old if changing the lapping plate cloth gets me excited. I wonder what I will be like when I clean down my Mill and Lathe tomorrow. Could be doing cartwheels around the workshop. I will let you know tomorrow evening :thumbsup:
The Home Engineer

If anyone is in the SF Bay Area, I have a bunch of my raw materials that need a new home. I've got long sticks of some things like angle steel, some tube, and of course shorter stuff and plastic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

Hi Toolmaker51
I think I need to get out more I must be getting old if changing the lapping plate cloth gets me excited. I wonder what I will be like when I clean down my Mill and Lathe tomorrow. Could be doing cartwheels around the workshop. I will let you know tomorrow evening :thumbsup:
The Home Engineer

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Over the years, I've had good performance cleaning machine tools with auto-mechanic style hand cleaner. Lately, found plain old corn/ vegetable oil dissolve various greases and oils too, surprisingly well. Once they get 'under' petroleum based products, those lose adhesion and wipe off. Gone!

Some one has been in the sand box again sandy cheeks....Cap. I'm not saying who.....:lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

Over the years, I've had good performance cleaning machine tools with auto-mechanic style hand cleaner. Lately, found plain old corn/ vegetable oil dissolve various greases and oils too, surprisingly well. Once they get 'under' petroleum based products, those lose adhesion and wipe off. Gone!

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I don't know your legislation, but here as we have a high tax system on all petrol based products, we have substitutes made with natural base which are not under those taxes and function very well in washing bath or by hand cleaning, with an advantage that they are not volatile, it's a lot better for our health.
They are certainly made in the manner you describe with vegetable or similar range of solvents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

Hi Toolmaker51
I think I need to get out more I must be getting old if changing the lapping plate cloth gets me excited. I wonder what I will be like when I clean down my Mill and Lathe tomorrow. Could be doing cartwheels around the workshop. I will let you know tomorrow evening :thumbsup:
The Home Engineer

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Unfortunately the mill and lathe didn't get a clean down today maybe tomorrow:bananadance: I use ordinary furniture polish it is brilliant and of course cheap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

Unfortunately the mill and lathe didn't get a clean down today maybe tomorrow:bananadance: I use ordinary furniture polish it is brilliant and of course cheap

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I'm no chemist. However there evidently is chemistry at work where non-petroleum oils work to dissolve grime on machine tools. In the case of handcleaner & furniture polish, citrus additives seem central to satisfactory results.

Citrus based solvents are the most active for cleaning in my opinion too, but they have a certain dangerosity, for me due to the chemical products used in their culture, we do be careful and always have nitril gloves when using them.
I use a solvent like that to take out paper glued on surfaces and it's literally magic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehomeengineer

Hi Paul/Nelson
With the exchange rate USA to UK it is cheaper but still a lot of money (in my opinion). Often when doing a web search, it will bring up USA sites and it is noticeable the prices are a lot cheaper for you guys, and the choices are better. What I like about the USA is the fact you can buy almost anything you need at competitive prices on have it shipped/posted at cheap rates, and the Americans do seem to make quality tools. I have ordered from the US before and even with shipping costs it is still cheaper than buying in the UK. Just have to wait a bit longer but even that is getting a lot better. Cannot believe you have to pay to have scrap taken away. Scrap steel price in the UK is about £180.00 per/ton Copper is about £3000.00 per/ton so we are still weighing in.
Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and the comments made.
The Home Engineer

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We have a major problem, even with all the ID requirements, with copper theft along the railways in the UK.

Working in a Uni I build a lot of 'proof of principle' experimental kit from other departments scrap bins, the main one is emptied monthly for 'free' (the scrap man provides the bin for free and contributes to the technicians Christmas party beer fund), winnings have included 30 LARGE UPS batteries, 50 hacksaw blades (mainly unused) and lots of shelving bracketry, along with ends of bar stock and off-cuts of sheet material, all reused in in-house (at work) projects.

I did find a CNC operator with lots of useful bar ends on FB marketplace locally, but I wasn't sure he had the legal right to sell them when I met him so didn't buy any, we operate a duly recorded 'legitimate disposal' 'chit' system for taking stuff of site for the non-academics.

My dad always taught us, as kids, we can stop the "fallen off the back of a truck" (hot) cheap items by never buying any.
Cheers

Unlike the past, remnant and bar-ends are rare to find on the open market. Steel scrap isn't $0.25 or 0.30¢ a pound anymore either.

Please find me some!