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Relative size of particles.
Fullsize image: https://diqn32j8nouaz.cloudfront.net...s_fullsize.jpg
https://diqn32j8nouaz.cloudfront.net...icle_sizes.jpg
Previously:
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...377#post192641
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...990#post179782
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...298#post161591
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...346#post192507
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...210#post188264
Some cloth suckers could do with seeing this! lol
Yeah, you know you'd be able to smell the smoke which has particles larger than the virus.
Masks aren't used to stop the virus, itself, but to stop respiratory particles, and they do that not only by acting as a physical sieve, but also an electrostatic filter that attracts the particles. But even if they weren't filtering out the problem particles (as they aren't when the mask isn't worn properly), they still slow the particles down, limiting the distance they spread. Also, smoke smell molecules are much smaller than the smoke particles that convey them over distances and can penetrate things you can't breathe through. The virus can't live outside its little spittle home, so it doesn't just drift off like smoke scent molecules do.
I don't totally agree with you but hopefully we can agree to disagree.
According to a study by The Cleveland Clinic the virus can survive on glass for 5 days, wood for 4 days, plastic and stainless steel, 3 days, cardboard, 1 day, copper surfaces, 4 hours. So apparently the virus can live outside its little spittle home. So if someone sneezes, the smallest particles of spittle might evaporate completely while suspended in the air. The virus, weighing almost nothing could float in the air for some time. Besides, how often have you been strolling through Walmart and heard people sneezing or coughing. I don't recall noticing that at all but it most likely occurs sometime. Forgetting all of this, if masks worked why would the levels of sickness be so high in NY City? Not only are those people heavily vaccinated, they even wear the masks while alone outside which is totally unnecessary.
You may have a point about the smoke but I don't really believe that the mask is capable of filtering out the smoke particles and I don't think you really believe it either.
Perhaps you've been paying too much attention to Dr. Fauci. Not only is he an idiot but he is a liar. If everything he suggests or rather demands that we do was effective, why would we still be in this situation? Do your own research and don't pay too much attention to limited news sources.
Of course, we can agree to disagree, but I haven't been listening to Dr. Fauci. I've been listening to my brother, who's a PhD virologist and has worked in the CDC's hot lab (an amazing, but scary, place to see). Masks aren't foolproof, but they do work to slow the spread of the infectious particles we are worried about now, as has been proven in regions where mask usage is high. Your likelihood of catching COVID, or any communicable disease, is directly proportional to the amount of the infectious agent you bring into your body. So, those stray virii that are sitting around on a grocery cart handle or may linger in the air after the fluid droplets they hitch a ride on have evaporated aren't very likely to make you sick (they still can, though). They are like toxins: the more you are exposed to, the more likely you are to have an adverse reaction. Water is toxic if you drink enough. But think about it; why would doctors wear masks when they are in the OR? They'd be much more comfortable without them, but they help prevent the doctor and other staff from infecting the patient. And we are in this situation because people here didn't take the virus as seriously as they should have and didn't follow the precautions the CDC, the NIH, and others asked us to. The U.S. has had the worst COVID outcomes of any first-world nation, precisely because we had much of our population not following even basic guidelines against spreading the infection, including mask wearing and vaccination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floradawg
What are virii? Not in my dictionary. I do have respect for a PhD virologist but I can't figure out why he wouldn't know that viruses can survive outside their little pool of spittle. Doctors in the OR wear masks so their spittle doesn't fall into the patients' incisions. It wouldn't make sense for it to be to keep the bacteria/viruses from infecting the patient. Primarily because the bacteria and viruses wouldn't be stopped by the mask. Also because if the doctor were showing signs of a cold or other upper respiratory infections he would be at home. I stand by the assertion that if masks did any good we would be past this pandemic. Oh and also, the vast majority of the public DID take this situation seriously. Most of them did follow the recommendations from the CDC, NIH and others. Much of our population not following even basic guidelines? Listen to yourself. Are you serious?
Oh yeah, and over in Europe where they are presumably taking all this seriously and following all the recommendations, well they're doing great aren't they?
My brother does know that, as do I, and I tried to explain that even though there are viruses (my mistake for using the non-term "virii"--I'm an electrical engineer by trade, not a doctor or biologist) out there, you are rarely exposed to enough of them to make you sick, unless you come into contact with someone who has an active case of COVID, whether they know it or not. Again, it's a case not just of exposure, but also the amount of exposure that determines whether you are likely to become ill. Masks do cut exposure significantly, both by providing a physical barrier to slow the particles down, and by attracting those particles so they stay contained within the mask (either because they soak up the droplets or charged polypropylene electret fibers trap the particles using electrostatic or electrophoretic effects). Like anything else, masks are not perfect, but they do help. And as far as taking the pandemic seriously, there were protests against nearly every recommendation that came out of the CDC, and people still flocked to mass gatherings, like spring break and Sturgis. And worst of all, many of our "leaders" were calling the pandemic a "hoax" and advising their constituents not to follow control protocols and are still doing the same to this day. That said, I'm certain I haven't changed your mind about any of this, so I'll leave it at that and "agree to disagree."Quote:
Originally Posted by Floradawg
In case anyone is interested, here's a microscopic journey into various mask materials I saw a while back and found very interesting:
https://www.nist.gov/feature-stories...der-microscope
I don't remember anyone calling the pandemic a hoax. I could've missed that but "many"? I don't know about that. The link you provided was somewhat interesting but the images didn't come up. I will visit the site and try to view them.
I was I guess a bit smarmy at times and I apologize for that. We will however continue to disagree but that's life. Don't get me started on religion. :)
Okay, I tried again and the images did appear. This really is pretty interesting. The structure of the different materials is pretty cool looking. I always had the idea that masks had some effect even though that didn't come across. Kind of like if someone is throwing rocks at you and you have some chicken wire in front of you. Some rocks are still going to hit you. One analogy I read was "like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence". I kind of agree with that idea.
While we are discussing the tools used for this Covid-19 fight, look at how the vaccines were developed:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...elopment-speed
I have two tenants (mother and daughter) who know that the vaccine is part of a government ploy to control their mind and that masks make you more susceptible to the virus. They must be smarter than me because when they moved in they said the apartment was haunted but removed the ghosts by themselves when I had no idea of what to do. Both were hospitalized by Covid and remain un-vaccinated. I wear masks and have both shots plus the booster.
I'm pretty sure they used one of these. You can find them at Walmart in the haunted housewares department over by the bundles of sage and jugs of holy water. From what I hear, they work on all sorts of haints, apparitions, specters, vapors, as well as standard Casper-type ghosts. The only problem is that you have to take it to the place where they accept old oil, chemicals, and other toxic stuff for disposal. DO NOT empty it into your storm sewer! And whatever you do, do not cross the streams.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnginePaul
Attachment 41214
That was nice of them. No need to call ghostbusters.
I have had both shots but I only wear a mask when I have to.
Nice to see a civil discussion about something as controversial (political) as this, thank you both gentlemen. :bow:
Great dialog and points made except for the reply with the elementary school name calling, but I feel that was an attempt at provocation.
The part that really chaffs me is that if this were to happen, 8 years ago, I feel it would be controversial, but I don't think it wouldn't have stooped to the level it has. This has nothing to do with right, rights or wrongs, it's all about what particular herd you are part of.
I respect everyone's rights to do what they want, but this has gotten ridiculous. Human decency, compassion and character has gone out the window in favor of division, derision and ugliness and blind hatred. Those of us alive today are the first to see anything like this from our nation. We are witnessing something greater than every other tragedy in our Nation's history.
Before anyone comes out swinging for the fences at me, please note that I did not blame any one particular herd. EVERYONE who is involved is to blame for our not so bright future as a Nation.
I agree with you about the state of the nation today. It amazes me every time I think about it. I worry about what comes next. It's like reason has gone out the window. I keep waiting for gangs to start tearing down our cities (again). I'm an analytical thinking kind of guy. Sometimes it may seem that I have political reasons for what I believe, but honestly, I believe what I believe. I'm not really a conservative and definitely not liberal. It just so happens that the way I think follows along with one side more than the other. Discussions sometimes get heated but the things that are being thrown around these days are downright frightful.
I agree, very scary times we live in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floradawg
That is the difference between you and folks who would simply resort to name calling and intimidation, your beliefs are ingrained and part of who you are. I am the same way. I could call myself left of center, but I generally don't try to categorize.
I had a political science professor at university that I would love to have a chat with again. He was a retired "big firm partner attorney" and taught both sides with an unbiased lesson plan, what I loved about him was he encouraged us to dig into our own personal beliefs when it came to issues. He said he never characterized himself as left or right in general terms. He addressed each issue on it's own merit and compared it to what he as an individual believed. That was many moons ago and I will never forget it. It has served me well and I have taught my son to do the same.
Cheers to you my friend, keep spreading civility! :)
Cheers to you also my friend.
