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I built a pneumatic slotter to make pulleys for my recently posted lathe project
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...nversion-85662
and also to make some motorcycle clutch baskets. It is a dynamic device best viewed in moving picture form;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5aKoBlLiEg
Nicely done, Tony. I think I would have gone looking for a shaper, but what you've done should work very well for what you need.
Bill
Bill,Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
Firstly, space is short and a shaper could not earn its space for something with limited use for me. Fitting it on the mill makes it easy to index round stuff with a 4th axis and a few lines of G code could make it automatic from start to finish.
Secondly, there is no Craig's list here, the nearest shaper shop is probably 200 km from here and prices are crazy if I could find one.
Thirdly I wanted it working the next day.
My introduction to machining, back my senior year of high school, was lathe and shaper. I didn't get to play with the milling machines, but also know that shapers can do most things the mills can do, and a couple of things they can't. With really cheap tooling, unlike a mill. I have loved them ever since. To the point where I have 3 lathes, 2 milling machines, and a shaper, among many other things, and would buy a larger one if I could find one I could afford and shoehorn into my shop. ;) Yep. YMMV!
And not to say your reasons aren't perfectly valid, either! Good and sufficient. Though I can really see wanting it TOMMOROW! ;) I've actually had my shaper for several years, having bought it as a restoration project, and it's been put on the back burner so many times I lost count a few years ago. A few weeks ago, I made a new countershaft for it, but discovered I'd lost the bearing housing for the countershaft, and I've been looking for it as I juggled stuff in the workshop room. Found it last night! Now I have to punch out the bearing and get replacements. Hopefully Monday. But that may go by the wayside again, too. Frankly, I've got too much stuff in too little space, and some of it needs to go elsewhere. I've got a 10x14 metal shed in the back yard that also needs repairs, and some of the stuff can go out there once it's fixed. I figure to put the "dirty" stuff out there. Grinders, saws, etc. I have stuff juggled around enough now that I can see that I might be able to fit everything "clean" in the space I have inside the house now. Maybe. ;)
Bill
You may be a devotee of shapers but that is somewhat of an exageration. How would a shaper help me do this, which is typical my milling needs?Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
Attachment 39797 or this Attachment 39798
That is another reason that I have no desire for a shaper. I have nothing against shapers but they just offer nothing to be of interest to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
It wouldn't, and I didn't say it would do everything a mill would, just most things. Even in mills, there are two basic types, both of which have advantages and disadvantages. Horizontal mills will do some things vertical mills can't do, and the reverse is true, also. That would be one reason why I have one of each. Horizontal mills require pretty specialized & expensive tooling to do some of the things that vertical mills can't do. Vertical mill tooling is also more expensive than shaper tooling. But mills are generally much faster than shapers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Shaper tooling can be dead cheap, but shapers are really slow. You use the tool that best suits what you need. You needed a shaper, and made one. Slotter/Shaper. Major difference is that one is horizontal, one vertical. Yours is a slotter. They are of limited use. But downright useful, too. And there isn't anything wrong with not being interested in shapers or slotters. As long as you don't need one.
There are some folks who own manual shapers. Their arm powers the shaper. That's a bit much even for me, but it's just right for some folks. If you didn't have the air cylinder would you have possibly powered your device manually? It would have worked, just been much slower, and not nearly as much fun. Though some folks find it fun and relaxing.
You had other things to do, and that is just fine, and perfectly sensible. I'm playing with the stuff I play with because it is play. I'm doing it for fun. I'm sure you enjoy doing what you're doing, but it's obviously not just for fun for you. Nothing wrong with that, either. And if shapers are in short supply in your area, that's a perfectly fine reason all by itself. From the video, I'd say you're a grownup. You don't need my permission for anything, and I enjoyed your video because it showed a way to get around a problem that I might never have run into. Though I bet you could take that thing off your mill, and bolt it to a bench with a vise and make it work, too. And IIRC, you didn't make any permanent modifications to the lathe parts you used for the slide, so you could put it on a lathe when you need to. Excellent ingenuity. I'm almost jealous. ;)
Bill
I thought it was fun. Well, using the tools is more fun than making them, and racing what the tools make is the most fun of all.Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
I hope not.Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
It could go back but it is much better to use a solid block in its place.Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
Growing up doesn't mean losing your sense of fun. Like they say, the difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. ;)
I never got to do racing. My Uncle Walt was a name in go-kart racing in the 70's and 80's, at least, and I built karts for him for a short time while I was waiting to go into the USAF, but never got invited to even go to a race, not to mention drive one of the karts. His son was a racer, and won some races, and some trophies. 90HP Mac chainsaw motors, x2 on the karts they were racing. Some of the folks I was working with had been seriously injured doing it, and I suspect that might have had something to do with the lack of invitations.
As for the lathe parts, sometimes you need a compound, sometimes not. It all depends on what you're doing. Solving a problem can be fun. Using the solution can be fun. And sometimes it's just a means to an end. I like doing maintenance on machines. I think it's fun. It's less fun, however, when you need the thing running the next day to get to work, and it's sleeting while you're working. Been there, done that! May you always have the tools you need to hand, and may all your maintenance be fun, and done in good weather!
Bill
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Thanks tonyfoale! We've added your Slotter to our Machining category,
as well as to your builder page: tonyfoale's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:
<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-slotter"> <img src="/uploads/249361/homemade-slotter.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-slotter">Slotter</a> <span> by <a href="https://www.homemadetools.net/builder/tonyfoale">tonyfoale</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/broach'>broach</a>, <a href='https://www.homemadetools.net/tag/pneumatic'>pneumatic</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
<!-- END /var/www/html/homemadetools/protected/modules/zeus/views/tool/postUpdate.php -->
A compound is necessary for doing short large angle tapers, and for feeding the tool in at an appropriate angle for screw cutting. Apart from that the compound is a source of extra flex and slop.Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
For years I have run with a solid alternative only installing the compound when I needed to do the above. Now with my electronic control I do not need it to do those tasks so I shall have no future need to fit it to the lathe.
Attachment 39818 Click for full size.
Here is my tool post block, very rigid and there is a reduced chance of chatter.
Another good build Tony, only questions are why do you make your own clutch baskets, I know there must be a good reason. Special sizes, better material, accuracy?, just curios.
Regards Alan
I replied to this earlier but it seems to have disappeared????????????Quote:
Originally Posted by olderdan
The reason is because the originals are in steel and I want aluminium.
This may surprise you, but a manual shaper other than a table machine is not far-fetched, the base is in front of most of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by WmRMeyers
In smaller work, a Toolmaker will build a clamp that encircles his mill quill, a cup about 2" deep. The lower end spigot clamps a tool bit, round or square, rather like a boring holder.
If he grinds a proper bit; a small radius, square or angled corner can be finished. This includes canting the head for draft.
The spindle is positioned and locked from turning, low gear helps. At initial position, the quill handle is simply stroked to depth and above, out of the part.
One axis is moved at a time incrementally, while shaving excess material.
Cutting one keyway (maybe a few) might be feasible manually., but something like the clutch baskets that I showed is another matter altogether. I know someone who did it. It took him more than a day for the outer only and for some days afterwards he could not move his arm. If I did not have the pneumatic cylinder I would have got one. If I couldn't get one I would have made it with a motor powered crank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolmaker51
I prefer the cylinder because it gives me some control options. As I had it the video it cycled automatically, I was hoping that with the soft ending set stiff at the retracted end that it would "rest" long enough at TDC for advancing the feed. That did not happen and I was concerned about dragging the tool when feeding on the upstroke. Since the video I have added an Arduino to the mix. When the ram returns to TDC there is an adjustable time delay (0 to 2 secs) to give time for even a geriatric operator to advance the feed without dragging to tool. I would not have been able to do that with a crank system.
For the inner clutch basket a form ground milling cutter would the job well, but that would not work for the outer basket.
Providing that dwell time for cutter is half the battle of vertical shaping. Unless an 'actual' shaper such as P&W, Rockford, the little Bridgeport; they don't have a clapper box relieving the cutter of load on retraction. Near guarantee of chatter, faster wear of toolbit and difficulty finishing parallel to bore.
The clamp-on I described is passable; where a long enough small enough rotating cutter just aren't available.
Why, Tony? I would just turn the bit 180 deg and plunge away on the outside?Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Many thanks for posting your latest project. This was already quite interesting and now you have added an Arduino! Between your "not CNC" lathe project and now this; I can hardly keep up! Hopefully, a post on the Arduino programming or logic is scheduled for the future.
I do not understand your first sentence, I wonder if you misunderstand the requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltfever
I mentioned in a previous reply that I will give full details of the programming and schematics. There is one more video on the slotter to come but several on the lathe conversion. I do not exactly how many until I do them.
I have just posted the second part of this post here
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...-details-85772
Yes, I had the features reversed. I thought you were talking about the inside and outside (i.e., outer) of the same part. When, in fact, you were talking about 2 different parts. When you mentioned "inner" I thought you were shaping the inside of a basket. But you were referring to the inner-basket and not a particular surface at that point. Your video was clear, I just saw 2 baskets and thought you wanted to do both.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Attachment 39874
I can't see your features but I assume you could put a relief on the inside of the outer basket so the chip could curl into it. I see "relief" often on internal ring gears.
Thanks for answering back and not dismissing my question. All the best. Great work.
There is a relief groove at the bottom of the original. I would do the same with a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltfever
Agreement; relief for blind shaping.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Hate to think of material loosening to find it's way in any kind of mechanism. Even broaching, as a through-hole operation, still needs chamfer to exit side.
Two thumbs up.
