Spindex Mods and Attachment

I was in the shop browsing the web a few weeks ago looking at one of those cheap made chineez Spindexes and thinking one of those would come in handy for quick little setups once in a while plus there dirt cheap, about that time the wife came in and sat with me and asked what was I looking at, so I told her what it was and what it was for, well the next thing you know it’s Christmas morning and low and be hold Santa Clause came down the chimney and put one under the Christmas Tree, (whata wife)

It looks really nice but the best thing is the spindle fits the bore of the housing within tenths! I must have gotten a good one (well almost) so just for kicks and giggles I took it apart just to see how accurately it was made, I put it on the surface plate and checked the parallelism of the spindle with its base and it was high on one end .007” so I sat it up and reground the base, it’s now within .0003”, next I checked both faces of the housing to see if they were square with the bore, they were both out .004” so back to the grinder I went, they’re now within .0003”, so while I had it all apart I thought I would machine and grind all four edges of the base beings they were not machined just painted, I thought this would make it easy to line the fixture up against a stop or a rail on the mill or surface grinder, I also tapped four 1/4-20 holes one in each corner just for the heck of it, I milled two 9/16” slots in the sides of the base for T-Nuts and drilled and reamed to 5/8” dowel pin holes in line with the spindles axis for locating the fixture in the T-Slots on the mill table, this way the spindle is in line with the machines axis, you can see in photos 1 & 2 what I did, (this complete ordeal took all day)

After I got all that taken care of I was thinking a Tail Stock would be a really cool addition for this thing, especially when you working with something long that has to be supported on the opposite end of the Spindex, to give an example you could cut a gear that’s made directly onto a shaft, you could cut splins and gears, you could drill holes that has to be precisely indexed plus machine squares, hexes, octagonals Etc. this would really extend the Spindexes capabilities, so I sat the Spindex on the surface plate and established the center height of the spindle, I then came up with a design that I thought was pretty straight forward and simple, it has a slotted base for bolting down on the mill table with a hardened spindle that’s threaded for adjustments plus a spindle locking lever on the side, the spindle is made from 4140 Pre-Hard Steel with a 60° point, that point was then fully hardened, the rest of the tool was fabricated from pre-ground 1018 Steel and brass, its assembled with dowel pins and socket head cap screws, after all the work put into both pieces I got a pretty nice little setup, I have included some photos of the modifications to the Spindex and photos of machining the Tail Stock

As always thanks for looking and happy machining

Doug

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Yep what a wife indeed, I would have had to have made sure she wasn't looking if mine bought me one of those and I had immediately taken it apart to check it for dimensional accuracy let alone start grinding or milling in mods. Your tail stock is a great addition many a time I had thought about something like that myself

Hello Doug,
I tried to save this one to my "Gotta Make It" file via the Save Button in your write-up. Somehow, the "button" tried to pick up your entire text, not just the title and subsequently rejected the Save: "'description' is too long. The max length is 500 characters while your value is 701 characters". Is this something that you can fix or does someone else need to be involved? (I'm pretty new here.)
Thanks,
Uncle Bob

I had to slip in a .003" piece of brass shim stock to stop the spindle from rocking when using it on the surface grinder. That one was 20 years ago. I purchased one last year that was better, but still not as tight as yours.
You got very lucky. Is there a manufacture name and tool supplier that your wife got this from? A link would be very nice.
:D

Wonderfull set up. I could see milling hexes on the dumb end of some drill bits I have. I seem to remember the mill in the pictures is a hf mill is that correct? Been looking at them. Also been looking at a stinel sv4 mill. Would like the German made one but the time may not be right. Thanks
Eric

Doug,

Those mods make a big difference the cheap spindexers. I did very similar for my T&C grinder. I did consider making a tail stock but so far I have not had need for one.

There is one extra modification that I did to mine. As they come it is very hard to remove all endfloat and still have a smooth rotation so I decided to keep it loaded with a spring. I didn't have one of the right size and I used a bunch of O-rings instead. Lack of endfloat was critical for my main application and this fixed it perfectly. Details are shown in a previous post http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/h...6205#post83248

I also had a need for smooth low friction combined longitudinal and rotational motion and so I converted it to work as an air bearing when needed. This is only of use in specific applications.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank S

Yep what a wife indeed, I would have had to have made sure she wasn't looking if mine bought me one of those and I had immediately taken it apart to check it for dimensional accuracy let alone start grinding or milling in mods. Your tail stock is a great addition many a time I had thought about something like that myself

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Thanks Frank
The wife hadn't any idea what I was doing that day, if she had seen me doing those things she would have asked if it was no good? , she's pretty sharp though, she understands our language terminology pretty darn good.

thanks again
Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossbotics

Thanks Frank
The wife hadn't any idead what I was doing that day, if she had seen me doing those things she would have asked if it was no good? , she's pretty sharp though, she understands our language terminology pretty darn good.

thanks again
Doug

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Mine too; I think that is why she doesn't buy me things like that because she knows most things that can be bought in our budget range is never going to suit me so rather than buy me something she already knows that I'm going to cut up grind up weld up or otherwise transform into something entirely different she will tell me to buy what I want and contribute some of her money for the item. That way what ever I do to the item is on my head

Really enjoyed the Great write up, and build Doug! There are a ton of these mods out there but none done to your quality and fully built add-on tailstock. The thing i really like is; for a days'+ of work you can make a cheap n' cheerful item like this into a precision instrument that will serve more purposes and a long time!

Thanks for sharing your take on this and Kudo's to your wife for her inspiring you to take it to your level!

:hattip: PJ

Hi Bob
Thanks for your interest in the tool, you should be able to left click your mouse and drag the cursor I across all the text, this will turn the text blue, then right click anywhere on the blue text then left click and select copy, then right click and paste it into any word editor, notepad, whatever program you have on your computer.
Let me know if this helps

Doug

Very nice write up and a set of pictures. I’m kinda interested in your setup techniques to prep for getting the bore parallel to the bottom. I’ve seen but not used various approaches to make a bore parallel too easy or more surfaces and frankly none of them leave me with a warm sense of confidence. Actually a video would explain a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metric_taper

I had to slip in a .003" piece of brass shim stock to stop the spindle from rocking when using it on the surface grinder. That one was 20 years ago. I purchased one last year that was better, but still not as tight as yours.
You got very lucky. Is there a manufacture name and tool supplier that your wife got this from? A link would be very nice.
:D

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Hi metric_taper
The wife said she got it off e-bay, below is the link to the same one she said she got me

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-5...frcectupt=true

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossbotics

Hi metric_taper
The wife said she got it off e-bay, below is the link to the same she got me

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-5...frcectupt=true

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That is the same one I got last year. Note that "Saturn" trademark symbol. I've gotten several of their lathe chucks, and found the runout to be very good. Not as good as the Bison brand, but they are low cost. It was that trademark symbol that enticed me to replace the original spin index. It's better, but I was disappointed in surface finish of the spindle and it's bore.

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Thanks rossbotics! We've added your Spindex Modifications and Attachment to our Machining category,
as well as to your builder page: rossbotics's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-spindex-modifications-and-attachment"> <img src="/uploads/220065/homemade-spindex-modifications-and-attachment.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-spindex-modifications-and-attachment">Spindex Modifications and Attachment</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/rossbotics">rossbotics</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/indexing-unit'>indexing unit</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by suther51

Wonderfull set up. I could see milling hexes on the dumb end of some drill bits I have. I seem to remember the mill in the pictures is a hf mill is that correct? Been looking at them. Also been looking at a stinel sv4 mill. Would like the German made one but the time may not be right. Thanks
Eric

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Thanks suther51 for your comment
Yea my mill is one of those red ones from HF, it's a lot of milling machine for the money, I put a 4" riser block under the column, that really extended its capabilities, I don't know much about those two other mills you described, but after owning this mill from HF I would buy another one, like I said it's a lot of mill for the bucks

Thanks
Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonyfoale

Doug,

Those mods make a big difference the cheap spindexers. I did very similar for my T&C grinder. I did consider making a tail stock but so far I have not had need for one.

There is one extra modification that I did to mine. As they come it is very hard to remove all endfloat and still have a smooth rotation so I decided to keep it loaded with a spring. I didn't have one of the right size and I used a bunch of O-rings instead. Lack of endfloat was critical for my main application and this fixed it perfectly. Details are shown in a previous post http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/h...6205#post83248

I also had a need for smooth low friction combined longitudinal and rotational motion and so I converted it to work as an air bearing when needed. This is only of use in specific applications.

---

Thanks Tony, what you did to your spindexer was great, never considered sharpening ball end mills or end mills with radiused corners, one would have to make an attachment basically with your design to achieve those functions, the end play was a problem as well, I had considered winding a spring but never thought about the O-ring method, I did drill a 1/4" hole through the housing and through the spindle and a 1/4" hole in the collet tightening knob to use two 1/4" long punches for tightening and loosening the collets.
Thanks for all the heads up
Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossbotics

Thanks Tony, I did drill a 1/4" hole through the housing and through the spindle and a 1/4" hole in the collet tightening knob to use two 1/4" long punches for tightening and loosening the collets.
Thanks for all the heads up
Doug

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Yes tightening the collet is a problem. I could not drill a hole as you have because then I could not have the air bearing. Instead I keyed the locating plate to the spindle and that is big enough diameter to hold well enough by hand. My spindexer is mainly (not exclusively) used on my T&C grinder and the grinding loads are very low so the collet does not need to be super tight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJs

Really enjoyed the Great write up, and build Doug! There are a ton of these mods out there but none done to your quality and fully built add-on tailstock. The thing i really like is; for a days'+ of work you can make a cheap n' cheerful item like this into a precision instrument that will serve more purposes and a long time!
Thanks for sharing your take on this and Kudo's to your wife for her inspiring you to take it to your level!

:hattip: PJ

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Thank You PJs
I'll tell the wife what you said, she'll get a kick outa that

Thanks Again Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wizard69

Very nice write up and a set of pictures. I’m kinda interested in your setup techniques to prep for getting the bore parallel to the bottom. I’ve seen but not used various approaches to make a bore parallel too easy or more surfaces and frankly none of them leave me with a warm sense of confidence. Actually a video would explain a lot.

---

Thank You wizard69
It's actually just as easy to locate from any reference point no matter where you start, you have to start from somewhere, the next thing is to have a known angle plate of absolutely trueness, you can check your angle plate if you have the right tools, you have to flip the part 180° and shim the part the amount it was out from the opposite side, that's just a starter, you then have to check it again from its base side, you most likely will have to use .0002" shim stock from there on out, I guess I should have made a video of that process, it is a time consuming process to get those kinda results, I assumed most everybody new how that was done, guess I was wrong.

Thank You for your interest

Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossbotics

Thanks suther51 for your comment
Yea my mill is one of those red ones from HF, it's a lot of milling machine for the money, I put a 4" riser block under the column, that really extended its capabilities, I don't know much about those two other mills you described, but after owning this mill from HF I would buy another one, like I said it's a lot of mill for the bucks

Thanks
Doug

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Thanks Doug for the reply, funny how things work out. Submitted an offer of about 20% off for the stinel mill and it was accepted. They are not very common this side of the pond as they say but have a reputation for being very ridged and accurate. They are described as one half the size of a Bridgeport. Comes with factory built in power feed with clutches and gear changes driven by drive shaft from one of the v belts in the back. Built in coolant also. Gonna have to step up my game now. Gonna be a tight fit in my shop but a metal lathe and a mill is a decades old dream come true.

Steinel SV4 Manual and Flier.pdf - OneDrive
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=FF091...%21204&o=OneUp
Copy of the manual
Thanks
Eric

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossbotics

Thank You wizard69
It's actually just as easy to locate from any reference point no matter where you start, you have to start from somewhere, the next thing is to have a known angle plate of absolutely trueness, you can check your angle plate if you have the right tools, you have to flip the part 180° and shim the part the amount it was out from the opposite side, that's just a starter, you then have to check it again from its base side, you most likely will have to use .0002" shim stock from there on out, I guess I should have made a video of that process, it is a time consuming process to get those kinda results,

Doug

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As the bore was the only area that was not available for machining I made a mandrel and located off that in two directions.
One was to true the base and I took a cut off the top whilst I was at it.
The other was to machine the sides and ends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by suther51

Thanks Doug for the reply, funny how things work out. Submitted an offer of about 20% off for the stinel mill and it was accepted. They are not very common this side of the pond as they say but have a reputation for being very ridged and accurate. They are described as one half the size of a Bridgeport. Comes with factory built in power feed with clutches and gear changes driven by drive shaft from one of the v belts in the back. Built in coolant also. Gonna have to step up my game now. Gonna be a tight fit in my shop but a metal lathe and a mill is a decades old dream come true.

Steinel SV4 Manual and Flier.pdf - OneDrive
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=FF091...%21204&o=OneUp
Copy of the manual
Thanks
Eric

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That's an awesome looking Mill Eric, that machine looks like a machine should look, it has that rigid look!, glad to hear your dream come true shop is in the making,

Doug

Hi Tony,
Fascinated with your homemade tool & cutter grinder idea, but when I tried the link to the videos explaining the trig I got a 404 page on your website and could not locate any videos. Help?
thanks,
Joe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeH

Hi Tony,
Fascinated with your homemade tool & cutter grinder idea, but when I tried the link to the videos explaining the trig I got a 404 page on your website and could not locate any videos. Help?
thanks,
Joe

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Joe,

A while back I deleted some stuff off dropbox to reclaim some space. As people alert me to a problem I get it fixed. I'll let you know when I have loaded them elsewhere.

Thanks. I look forward to studying it.

Joe,

I think everything is OK now. The actual links looked to have been corrupted, the files themselves were all in place.

Hi Doug,
You have a very special partner, Santa.
Thank you for taking the time to document the changes to your tooling, i have internet stalked you and saved any of the relivant tooling that i need, and also learned from your descriptions. When you can please do more youtube videos you have more to teach.
May i ask do you have any plans or drawing of your spindexer tailstock, I have solidworks 2016 yes i can sit and fathom out a drawing, or be cheeky and ask.....
Thank you for your time Kindest regards Dave....Beagles.

Doug excellent upgrades. Used my spandex as is and now want to remember each usage if being out of parallel would affect functionality of my parts. Going to surface plate and height gage ASAP. THANKS

Your welcome