TipLap style tool sharpener

After using a Tiplap tool sharpener for many years I really missed this excellent machine when I retired, particularly when an accurate screw cutting or acme tool bit was needed.
Buying one was to expensive for my now occasional use but making something similar out of the scrap box seemed feasible.

I already had a spare six inch bench grinder and a steel baseplate to mount it all on (I am sure a decent wood base would be ok).
A cupped diamond wheel is used and I was fortunate in finding a damaged on for a song, a one inch chunk had been knocked of the rim and this was repaired with plastic metal and has been used for many years now.

The only accuracy needed is the squareness of the bar in relation to the wheel, this is easily achieved by placing a flat bar or disc on the wheel and using a DTI in the tool holder until squareness is obtained at which point the end blocks are bolted down.

Sizes are flexible to suit your needs , mine uses a 1 inch bar an easy fit in the alloy blocks.
In use I rarely clamp the tool being ground as thumb pressure alone seems to work combined with the end stop, It also makes it easy to remove the tool for inspection and replace it exactly where it was for further grinding. It works very well in sharpening carbide tools and tips.

This is of course a finishing process keeping the land to about .050 max after the blank is roughed out using a grit wheel.

I have also sharpened end mills and twist drills (4 facet method) with a few simple fixtures.
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olderdan has a soundly designed T&C setup here. I am not familiar with commercialized TipLap. I suspect their proofs of concept and initial prototyping was identical to this. A lot of recognized equipment gets that way from sales volume and marketing, even if only making a "I've seen those before" reaction.
But generating homebuilt is a whole different cookie, especially where I think too many get caught up in thread cutting exercises, to substitute the micrometer head. Add graduating a barrel, thimble, backlash comp, means of zeroing....yaddy yaddy yaw. What for? It's still just a cut thread (often better, modify a SHCS in a easily divisible pitch - in smooth rolled threads).
Anyway, this version can be easily tuned square and parallel. Adapting a few special holders would tip solid boring bars and anything guys pant on single lip Deckels for; and not 3something grand used!

My contribution would be a collet block, 5C and probably 24 stop indexing. I can see this (mine?) in extruded 80/20, linear guides on a large granite tile with rubber feet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

My contribution would be a collet block, 5C and probably 24 stop indexing. I can see this (mine?) in extruded 80/20, linear guides on a large granite tile with rubber feet.

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Do you think 5C is better than R8?

A lot depends on where you are using them and what you need to use them for
the 5c uses a hollow draw bar where as stock can be passed through in the lathe such as a rifle barrel bore center guide can be adapted to the rear of the draw bar now the barrel can be held perfectly concentric to the bore in the lathe.
Obviously the R8 collects are made more to hold short stock or end mills and can be used either in a lathe of a millthat is the main difference to them in my opinion but if you put a dollar with it you still couldn't buy a decent cup of coffee now days

I like this design a lot. It seems historical engineering says 5C is what's always used and when it was asked why in some of the discussions, the same reason was given.

But it's been a hard one to take as I don't own any 5c, but have two sets of R8. If I would have seen this design I think I would have gone this route because it's more my style and something I think I could have achieved. But having more $$ than I had time I broke down and bought a Chinese Deckle copy that uses the R8 collets. It's not perfect, but I've been able to get end mills, carbide router bit and drill bits back in service. It even came with a stone and 2 diamond wheels. I'm awaiting the attachment for doing the flutes.

One thing amongst many that I didn't know was my new set of R8 collets has an internal shoulder that was not helpful for some of the longer bits. I'd almost gotten rid of my old R8 set that came with my mill/drill originally. Good thing I didn't as they have no internal shoulder. For once procrastination paid off.

You want to learn collets, go to the Hardinge website, nobody covers collets like they do. Then, manufacturers have their own too! There are 100's.
Collets exist in two basic forms; workholding and toolholding. Even when diameters are the same, the steps to next size are much smaller in workholders. 5C's main advantage is the range of sizes, shapes, and commonality; whatever collets a shop has, some will be 5C. Toolholders tend smaller to keep spindle and quill diameters reasonable, big bearings = big money. Not much issue in lathes, certainly milling and drilling for many reasons. 2J is another workholder, kind of overgrown 5C at 4x cost. I can't pop those $$'s. I scored a bucket of good 215's a year ago. Not popular but in scale with 2J. Looking for a D1-6 lathe collet nose, all are used and beat. BUT a couple are posted here, 5C, but dangit I know how to measure. Important part, they undertook a precision build under their own roof successfully. Their text is perfect proof of concept. When the electricity goes in, that will be Project One, exercising a lot of resources within.
Maybe its exorcising, maybe excising, whatever. Wild browser wants to spell check me, but don't know Jack about a manufactory vocabulary. Can't figure how PC's get made in the first place without it! I constantly add them, but the more I write, red squiggles still appear like confetti at a New Year's party.
That's me in the recliner, laptop and literary lubricating liquids in hand.
Letting ligaments of the left not linger or lapse during liaison of liter to lips, of course.
yep it's fothurtyindamornin!

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Thanks olderdan! We've added your Tool Sharpener to our Sharpening category,
as well as to your builder page: olderdan's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/tool-sharpener"> <img src="/uploads/154909/tool-sharpener.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/tool-sharpener">Tool Sharpener</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/olderdan">olderdan</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/grinder'>grinder</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/sharpening'>sharpening</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/dial-indicator'>dial indicator</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Sorry about hijacking older dan's posting but thank you Toolmaker51 for the references to the Hardinge website.

I do mainly lathe machining for 1" or smaller diameter rod materials and like 5C and ER32 collets because of the thru hole holding for longer stock and higher accuracy than my 3-jaw chucks (these are not run true chucks). The 5C collets for hex, square stock and some rectangular stock extends the possibilities of what can be held very accurately in the lathe. If I had a 6-jaw run true chuck, I think this would be my main holding device the rod and hex stock except for the 3/8" or less diameters. The little ER16 collet chuck I made for my Unimat lathe has now become the go-to chuck for this small 3" swing lathe because of its accuracy. R8 collets are great for the milling machine but buy the best you can afford with the least TIR in order to extend milling cutter life. Good quality carbide milling cutters are expensive and the longer the cutter tool life the better.

Thank you for the discussion.
Paul Jones

Congratulations olderdan - your TipLap-Style Tool Sharpener is the Tool of the Week!

Another really tough week to choose a winner. Nice Stitching Pony from frugalolegeezer, Engraving Pantograph from mklotz, and QCTP Holders from mattthemuppet. An Anvil Stand from gustave also really stood out. It's challenging to walk into a discussion where everyone has built a specific tool, and then post the best version of it.


olderdan - Great work posting a winning tool in a highly competitive week. You'll be receiving one of our official HomemadeTools.net T-shirts:

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Please PM me a mailing address, black/white color choice, and size preference, and I'll get it mailed out shortly.

And, we've added the wrench-on-pedestal award to the awards showcase in your postbit, visible beneath your username:
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...eWeekIcon4.png

Congrats again and nice work!

Many thanks Jon

Thanks olderdan -- all packaged up, and it will go out in the mail this week. Congrats again!

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

olderdan has a soundly designed T&C setup here........
My contribution would be a collet block, 5C and probably 24 stop indexing.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by C-Bag

Do you think 5C is better than R8?

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I use 5C in my T&C grinder (which I posted here recently) but that was largely because I used a Spin Indexer to rotate the the tool and that comes bored for 5C. However, the 5C has allowed me to do things which I could not have with R8, due to its through hole and larger available holes.
Both R8 and 5C are limited in that they come in discrete inch or metric sizes, which means that you need a multitude of collets to cover a full range of sizes in small steps. Of course that doesn't matter if you only need to hold the main sizes, but it becomes a problem if, like me, you want to hold drill bits in 1/64" and 0.5mm steps as well as a full range of number and letter sizes. For that I use adjustable collets in an ER25 chuck with 5C stem. You could use a normal drill chuck to cover the size range but without a through hole you are forced into large overhangs.
I have a large number of drill bits with a MT1 shank, the 5C allows me to feed them in from the back which I couldn't do with R8. For anything with a MT2 shank I have made a 5C holder with a MT2 taper inside, this usually leaves a lot of overhang but with care it gets the job done.

Tony Foale's accurate comments triggered email new action in this thread; and of great interest to me. 5C is popular for many applications, and rightly so. Compact OD, with comparative large maximum bore, in more sizes than many realize, being OD threaded operable by a hollow drawbar, AND if selected carefully ID threaded for a variety of stock stops. New, they are available in roughly 4 price ranges.
Tony is correct that a 5C would hold a an ER setup nicely; and useful for tool or workholding as well.
Now for a little more on collets.
All that aside, an enterprising designer could build a replacement/ alternate spindle(s) for a spin-dex carrying ER's; utilizing more of a compression than collapse function. The compression feature permit range of closure of beyond the few thousandths of a 5C. 5C, R8, 2J, 215, etc are split in front only, sized and cylindrical at one particular diameter only. ANY other only pinch, which can also 'spring' the collet into deformity, and unreliable thereafter.
The brand I can't recall; but there was a grinder for larger drills using Jacobs Rubberflex, that also function ala collapse. They're tool steel fingers bonded to neoprene [?] spacers, very good work holding collets. The drawback is they need a handwheel about 10" diameter to operate. Too big for convenient sized T&C abrasives.
Another 5C advantage. Using the largest with an eccentric bushing will grind beautiful, tapered boring bars; the right way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toolmaker51

...... an enterprising designer could build a replacement/ alternate spindle(s) for a spin-dex

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Actually, I made another spindle (should a hollow tube be called a spindle??) with a flat flange on the end to fit a small lathe chuck, either 3 or 4 jaw. It is useful. I'll try to remember to take some pix.

I'm sorry if I'm not the first to ask, but is there any way to get set of plans for this? I've looked around the site and couldn't find them. For the first few projects I'm considering after retirement, this one would definitely be in the top 10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tmoore4748

I'm sorry if I'm not the first to ask, but is there any way to get set of plans for this? I've looked around the site and couldn't find them. For the first few projects I'm considering after retirement, this one would definitely be in the top 10

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Hi tmoore4748. The only plans I have are in Sketchup form, these are 3D and to scale so you can dimension the parts and you are welcome to them if they will be of use to you.
These files are to large for the forum so I would have to send it in zipped form to your email address ( you can PM me if you wish).
Thanks for your interest.
Olderdan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olderdan

Hi tmoore4748.
These files are to large for the forum so I would have to send it in zipped form to your email address

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Alan, you might consider Dropbox. You can get quite a bit of free space and it is convenient to just drop files there and then you only have to pass a coded URL (supplied by Dropbox for each file) on to all whom you wish to see it. It is very easy to use.

Thank you Tony, Dropbox sounds a good solution, I will look into it.

many thanks indeed for your useful and practical post

I use drop box all the time sending 3d cad drawings back and forth my main problem is many of my files can approach half a gig in size which overwhelms the system so we break them up into smaller sub assemblies. My internet connection is probably the biggest limiting factor, having only a maximum speed of 50mps average of 20mps but I have seen it drop to 5 several times. but it still beats the old dial up we had before and hopefully the co-op will complete their fiber installation this spring

For my cutter grinder I have a preference for draw in collets. It allows me to snug them up from the back end with a knurled closer. I consider wrenches a nuisance such as for ER collets.

Agreeing with old_toolmaker, but different objection. Draw in collets have a distinct advantage over those closed at the front. The nut required by the latter eats up tool length to grip [adding run out], and interference within grinding/ cutting area. 1/2"+ diameters maybe not so bad, adverse in the smaller sizes, being proportionally shorter.

PS. There are toolholdering and workholding collets; for example 5C is good at both but they are workholders first.
R8, on the other hand not a good workholder because they are blind, restricting part length.
ER and similar are terrific for tooling and work. The reason outside others mentioned, is they collapse to grip; full contact and concentricity.
Many collets only pinch, good for a specific diameter +/- a thou or 2 max.
5C and such [215, 2J, and others get a bit of range because their overall length.

I definitely agree with that.
I am currently using ER-32 collets. I plan to make or purchase a suitable set of draw in collets to fit within a 1” diameter bar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olderdan

After using a Tiplap tool sharpener for many years I really missed this excellent machine when I retired, particularly when an accurate screw cutting or acme tool bit was needed.
Buying one was to expensive for my now occasional use but making something similar out of the scrap box seemed feasible.

I already had a spare six inch bench grinder and a steel baseplate to mount it all on (I am sure a decent wood base would be ok).
A cupped diamond wheel is used and I was fortunate in finding a damaged on for a song, a one inch chunk had been knocked of the rim and this was repaired with plastic metal and has been used for many years now.

The only accuracy needed is the squareness of the bar in relation to the wheel, this is easily achieved by placing a flat bar or disc on the wheel and using a DTI in the tool holder until squareness is obtained at which point the end blocks are bolted down.

Sizes are flexible to suit your needs , mine uses a 1 inch bar an easy fit in the alloy blocks.
In use I rarely clamp the tool being ground as thumb pressure alone seems to work combined with the end stop, It also makes it easy to remove the tool for inspection and replace it exactly where it was for further grinding. It works very well in sharpening carbide tools and tips.

This is of course a finishing process keeping the land to about .050 max after the blank is roughed out using a grit wheel.

I have also sharpened end mills and twist drills (4 facet method) with a few simple fixtures.
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I just found this post and many thanks for making it. Is there any way of obtaining prints of some type for this? I would really appreciate any help you might have. Thanks Hoss

I don’t know where to get drawings for this cutter grinder attachment, but there are numerous similar bench grinder attachment plans available. Maybe Google “Tinker Tool and Cutter Grinder”

The only working drawings I have for this are in Sketchup format, they are to scale and can be dimensioned from within if you are a user of Sketchup. These were drawn retrospectively for the post as I do not generally make drawings and work on the fly with what I can find and good old pencil and paper. I could send a zip file if it would be of use to you (too large to post here). I have since made a new top block incorporating an ER20 mounting with a click indexer for end mill and drill sharpening.

Seems the Tinker T&C grinder was a popular feature in the "Home Shop Machinist" publication; so much that castings were available by order.

I would greatly appreciate the zip files that you have offered , heck even sketchups will help. If you can just email them to me. Thanks

I would appreciate the zip files if you have the time. Please email them it is greatly appreciated

I was particularly interested to read about salvaging a cupped grinding wheel using plastic metal. What limits would be placed on a repair like this? I note that it was a diamond lapping plate, not an ordinary grit wheel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philip Davies

I was particularly interested to read about salvaging a cupped grinding wheel using plastic metal. What limits would be placed on a repair like this? I note that it was a diamond lapping plate, not an ordinary grit wheel.

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Hi Phil
To answer your question I repaired the damaged wheel section with metal putty and finished it flush with a 60 grit stone. This was done about 25 years ago and is still ok and seems to have no effect on balance ect and wears to the same level as the bond.
This was a shot to nothing as the wheel (CBN) was free as some idiot at work had tried to hit it true and chipped about i inch away. I an not recommending this but its worked for me so it may for you.
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