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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_robotics View Post
    How many died by kite?
    Many, but not in the same gruesome manner for sure. I find it all stupid and unnecessary.
    I don't think third world countries have a monopoly on quantity or quality of stupidity --definitely not quantity (as in the number of victims). What is offensive, and what I have seen in posts repeatedly, is that stupidity is ascribed to third world countries only.

    While talking about quality, here is some quality stupidity- international edition:

    https://klyker.com/safety-is-for-wimps/

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  2. #12
    Supporting Member WmRMeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEM2008 View Post
    Many, but not in the same gruesome manner for sure. I find it all stupid and unnecessary.
    I don't think third world countries have a monopoly on quantity or quality of stupidity --definitely not quantity (as in the number of victims). What is offensive, and what I have seen in posts repeatedly, is that stupidity is ascribed to third world countries only.

    While talking about quality, here is some quality stupidity- international edition:

    https://klyker.com/safety-is-for-wimps/
    Plenty of stupidity to go around in the world, and in the USA. OSHA & CPSC are two of the organizations here that seem to be causing the ramp up in publicly blatant disregard for safety.

    Science fiction writers were discussing the problem in the 50's & 60's.

  3. #13
    Supporting Member Frank S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WmRMeyers View Post
    Plenty of stupidity to go around in the world, and in the USA. OSHA & CPSC are two of the organizations here that seem to be causing the ramp up in publicly blatant disregard for safety.

    Science fiction writers were discussing the problem in the 50's & 60's.
    Unfortunately common sense is not so common anymore. Ignorance has gone to seed, and stupidity has become an infectious disease
    Never try to tell me it can't be done
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    Supporting Member odd one's Avatar
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    I think of it this way. If all of these deaths from acts of ignorance, stupidity, risk taking, misfortune, etc., or just plain bad luck did not occur, we would be facing an even greater rate of unsustainable population growth. This is just culling of the heard. Fair/deserved/innocent/undeserved or other wise. Has always been, will always be, just some of the methods have changed over time. We are all in this lottery, never knowing when or where our ticket is going to get punched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank S View Post
    Unfortunately common sense is not so common anymore. Ignorance has gone to seed, and stupidity has become an infectious disease
    Another way to look at it is that the world is much more crowded than just a few decades ago, and with everyone carrying smartphones, the chances of running into stupidity or seeing it online has increased exponentially. I just don't like to be the victim of such instances.

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    Supporting Member hemmjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEM2008 View Post
    in 2020, 20,000 Americans died by shooting (including 300 children), and additional 24,000 suicide by gun. Yep, I love third world insanity too!
    Those numbers you quote are indeed tragic. However, according to CDC.gov, in 2019, 70,630 drug overdose deaths occurred in the United States. If you look at the data, the gun problem and the drug problem, are the same problem.

    YES, the number of gun deaths is the US is tragic, but more tragic is the lack of focus on the REAL problem. The lack of enforcement of EXISTING laws. While at the same time, trying to vilify law abiding citizens and allowing drug dealers and gangs to rule the streets.

    More lives would be saved, 70,630 by drugs vs 44,000 by gun, by making drugs illegal, and enforcing those laws. OH .... wait, drugs are already illegal!!!!

    According to the CDC(2011-2015)...More than 95,000 people die from excessive alcohol use in the U.S. each year. Excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, or 261 deaths per day. These deaths shorten the lives of those who die by an average of almost 29 years, for a total of 2.8 million years of potential life lost. It is a leading cause of preventable death in the United States, and cost the nation $249 billion in 2010.

    If preventing death is the REAL reason used to justify taking away guns, why not instead tackle the two issues that would save 3.7 times more lives that messing with gun owners. (70,630 drug deaths + 95,000 alcohol deaths = 165,630 total / 44,000= 3.76)

    Solutions to hard problems are difficult. When someone is trying to push a solution that is clearly not a real solution, you have to ask what is the real reason for pushing that agenda!!

    THAT is the real INSANITY, if simply passing laws was the solution to societies problems I am sure we already have enough laws to deal with all of the problems.

    As sane people, at least I think most of us are, let us push for real solutions. Rather than push foolish plans, with so much evidence that they are not real solutions to these significant issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hemmjo View Post
    Those numbers you quote are indeed tragic. However, according to CDC.gov, in 2019, 70,630 drug overdose deaths occurred in the United States. If you look at the data, the gun problem and the drug problem, are the same problem.

    YES, the number of gun deaths is the US is tragic, but more tragic is the lack of focus on the REAL problem. The lack of enforcement of EXISTING laws. While at the same time, trying to vilify law abiding citizens and allowing drug dealers and gangs to rule the streets.

    More lives would be saved, 70,630 by drugs vs 44,000 by gun, by making drugs illegal, and enforcing those laws. OH .... wait, drugs are already illegal!!!!

    According to the CDC(2011-2015)...More than 95,000 people die from excessive alcohol use in the U.S. each year. Excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, or 261 deaths per day. These deaths shorten the lives of those who die by an average of almost 29 years, for a total of 2.8 million years of potential life lost. It is a leading cause of preventable death in the United States, and cost the nation $249 billion in 2010.

    If preventing death is the REAL reason used to justify taking away guns, why not instead tackle the two issues that would save 3.7 times more lives that messing with gun owners. (70,630 drug deaths + 95,000 alcohol deaths = 165,630 total / 44,000= 3.76)

    Solutions to hard problems are difficult. When someone is trying to push a solution that is clearly not a real solution, you have to ask what is the real reason for pushing that agenda!!

    THAT is the real INSANITY, if simply passing laws was the solution to societies problems I am sure we already have enough laws to deal with all of the problems.

    As sane people, at least I think most of us are, let us push for real solutions. Rather than push foolish plans, with so much evidence that they are not real solutions to these significant issues.
    I think everyone missed the point. While India and Pakistan may have aquired a unique lead in number of stupid kite deaths, the US has a real unique problem with gun violence that is not found anywhere else in the world. I am sure there are other unique examples as as well if you look hard enough.

  10. #18
    Supporting Member WmRMeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemmjo View Post
    Those numbers you quote are indeed tragic. However, according to CDC.gov, in 2019, 70,630 drug overdose deaths occurred in the United States. If you look at the data, the gun problem and the drug problem, are the same problem.

    YES, the number of gun deaths is the US is tragic, but more tragic is the lack of focus on the REAL problem. The lack of enforcement of EXISTING laws. While at the same time, trying to vilify law abiding citizens and allowing drug dealers and gangs to rule the streets.

    More lives would be saved, 70,630 by drugs vs 44,000 by gun, by making drugs illegal, and enforcing those laws. OH .... wait, drugs are already illegal!!!!

    According to the CDC(2011-2015)...More than 95,000 people die from excessive alcohol use in the U.S. each year. Excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, or 261 deaths per day. These deaths shorten the lives of those who die by an average of almost 29 years, for a total of 2.8 million years of potential life lost. It is a leading cause of preventable death in the United States, and cost the nation $249 billion in 2010.

    If preventing death is the REAL reason used to justify taking away guns, why not instead tackle the two issues that would save 3.7 times more lives that messing with gun owners. (70,630 drug deaths + 95,000 alcohol deaths = 165,630 total / 44,000= 3.76)

    Solutions to hard problems are difficult. When someone is trying to push a solution that is clearly not a real solution, you have to ask what is the real reason for pushing that agenda!!

    THAT is the real INSANITY, if simply passing laws was the solution to societies problems I am sure we already have enough laws to deal with all of the problems.

    As sane people, at least I think most of us are, let us push for real solutions. Rather than push foolish plans, with so much evidence that they are not real solutions to these significant issues.
    And let us not forget that we've already tried to outlaw alcohol. It was called Prohibition. 1920-1933. That did not work out so well. The War on Drugs, which has been running nearly my whole life, has been no more successful.

    In order to solve problems, you must first identify the ACTUAL root causes. My friend Nils Ericson said, more than once, "Humans are no damn good. Though parts of them are edible." And the problem is human nature. I suppose we could totally depopulate the planet. That would tend to solve all our problems. However... It seems to me that the folks pushing gun control, drug control, alcohol control, et cetera, are really interested in CONTROL.

    Personally, I don't care what you do, so long as whoever you do it to or with is/are consenting adult(s). I would, however, advise you not to try to tell me what to do. Or not do. Hurting others is my definition of sin. Hurting yourself is just stupidity, and that is the most common substance in the Universe, as I understand it. Leave me alone to do my thing, and I'll leave you alone.

    Bill

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEM2008 View Post
    I think everyone missed the point. While India and Pakistan may have aquired a unique lead in number of stupid kite deaths, the US has a real unique problem with gun violence that is not found anywhere else in the world. I am sure there are other unique examples as as well if you look hard enough.
    I think you are not actually looking at the rest of the world. https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/...ce/by-country/ We're #74 on the list of 183 countries, but we've got about 1/8th of the violent deaths per 100,000 people that Honduras has.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e#cite_note-82

    4th sentence in the article says Venezuela has the highest death rate from firearms in the world. Though the article is also noted to be out of date. The other link shows Venezuela as 2nd in violent deaths.

    Considering that, also according to that chart, we in the USA have the highest number of firearms per capita in the world, at 120.5/100,000 and our next competitor is Serbia with about a third of that, we're not doing nearly as badly as you think.

    https://www.guns.com/news/2020/11/17...-ars-150m-mags Data the National Shooting Sports Foundation says there are 434 million guns in the US. There are only 333 million people in the US according to the US Census bureau. They also say that 214 million of them have been produced since 1991. I can believe that.

    In my collection of firearms, I have one that was built sometime between 1884 and 1889. There is a saying: Guns have only two enemies. Politicians and rust. Considering the number of guns in this country, and the fact that politicians have been trying to eliminate them for most of my life, and have in fact reduced the number of folks who got proper training on gun safety, I think we're doing pretty well. I've watched law abiding gun owners and shooters be demonized and blamed for the murder rate in this country since I was 8 years old. I'm 66 now. In all my life, and I've been shooting for 62 years of that 66, I have never shot a person. Nor has any of my guns. And I spent 24 of those years in the military.

    There is a considerable amount of "information" about guns out there that is flatly wrong. It would be more properly called "misinformation" except that the folks pushing that info won't admit they're wrong. Some of that is that they are, themselves, misinformed, and some of it flat out lying. AR-15s, for example, are not machine guns. They are also not high-powered rifles. There is also no such thing as a "Ghost Gun." Guns in the United States were not required to be serialized until 1968. People in the colonies, and then the United States, once it was formed, have always made firearms. They've always tried to make guns with higher accuracy, higher capacities, higher rates of fire, and higher power. In 1830, one Jonathan Browning was making and selling multi-shot breach-loading rifles that could hold up to 25 rounds. He was not, by any stretch of the imagination, the first gunsmith in America. Under current US law, it is perfectly legal to make a firearm at home. There are restrictions in some states, but frankly, they are in violation of the 2nd Amendment. It has only been since 1986 that machine guns were not allowed to be manufactured in the US except for the military and police.

    And the original laws that restricted ownership of firearms were aimed at blacks, free or otherwise, and later other immigrants. Gun Control, at its roots, IS, WAS, and always has been racist. And it was mostly the Democrats that were responsible for that.

    For anyone interested in gun culture, here's a good introduction: https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uplo...nsequences.pdf

    It is a fictionalized accounting some of the fairly recent history of gun control in the US, written in the early 1990's, when there was a great deal of angst about various parties in the US who were seriously pushing gun control. The latter half of the book is about events that did not happen, fortunately, but some of the stuff in there did, if perhaps not exactly as it was written. Ruby Ridge and Waco, for example, are recounted as best he could reconstruct from the records available then. The book was published in 1996. And it is fiction, but based in fact. The main protagonist of the story is several years older than I am, and our experiences are quite different, but I was easily able to identify with him.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by FEM2008 View Post
    I think everyone missed the point. While India and Pakistan may have aquired a unique lead in number of stupid kite deaths, the US has a real unique problem with gun violence that is not found anywhere else in the world. I am sure there are other unique examples as as well if you look hard enough.
    No, we did not miss the point. You have missed it. The US has a VIOLENCE problem. If those who claim you want to save lives would drop the word gun from your rhetoric, and really mean it, you would open yourself to so many real solutions to the problems that you see as unique to the U.S. but that are in reality world wide.

    Yes, we have a problem, but you need to open your eyes and read more than the talking points of those promoting gun control, you will soon see there are many, much more widely effective possibilities. They may not be easy or cheap, but they would be effective. I DO NOT claim to have all of the answers, but I do know the solutions being proposed are foolish and are obscuring real solutions by claiming to be one.

    Your minds are blinded by the constant fallacies of the news and the politicians trying to score points for re-election rather than really solve problems.

    The drug, alcohol, and violence problems are all caused by a mental health issues. I think that most all rational people should be able to agree there is indeed a violence problem. You need to begin to look for ROOT causes rather than treating superficial symptoms.

    When fire fighters get to a big blaze, it may appear they are squirting water at the flame, but they are not. They are looking past the flames, to the material that is actually burning. They spray the water at the ROOT of the fire, after that, the flames just go away!!!!



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