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Thread: Coronavirus and homemade tools

  1. #121
    Supporting Member jdurand's Avatar
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    N2 is a nitrogen MOLECULE, N is an atom. As you pointed out it got an affinity with bonding to something. THAT is what causes trouble, the bonding might break a molecule you need for something else, or the broken molecule may now be poisonous, or the new molecule with the N2 becomes poisonous.

    A common fertilizer, KNO3 is kind of good at letting go of that O3 if something more appealing comes along and releasing pent up energy in the process. Making some of these combinations can land you in jail in the USA and probably other places.
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  2. #122
    Supporting Member hemmjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old kodger View Post
    "Caveat: snip...
    Now my question is: - how can a naturally occurring element (7 on the periodic table), being more than 3/4 of the atmosphere, "be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system" ?
    Oxygen is also a naturally occurring element that is essential for life. Oxygen can be found alone O, combined with another O atom to make O2, or combined with 2 other O atoms to make Ozone (O3). All 3 forms are Pure Oxygen. But O3 is toxic.

    Sodium and Chlorine are also VERY TOXIC to our health. But you love them on your food, as long as they are combined to make SALT
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    Last edited by hemmjo; 04-22-2020 at 05:51 PM.

  3. #123
    Supporting Member jdurand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemmjo View Post
    Oxygen is also a naturally occurring element that is essential for life. Oxygen can be found alone O, combined with another O atom to make O2, or combined with 2 other O atoms to make Ozone (O3). All 3 forms are Pure Oxygen. But O3 is toxic.
    And again it's the reactivity. Both O and O3 are looking for something to mate with. They REALLY want to bond. O2 will bond fairly easily, but needs a drink or two first.

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  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by old kodger View Post
    "Caveat: Ozone has some bad side effects to humans apart from killing viruses, too...
    While producing ozone outta air with a corona-discharge unit, you also get N2 as a by-product,
    which can be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system."

    As a result of this post, I did a small amount of research. Lets look at N2, N is a nitrogen atom, but is unstable and requires another N atom to pair with, because N has three unpaired electrons. Pairing with another N atom satisfies the requirement of both N2 IS nitrogen as found in the atmosphere and it's concentration in the atmosphere is 78%.
    Now my question is: - how can a naturally occurring element (7 on the periodic table), being more than 3/4 of the atmosphere, "be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system" ?
    I can comprehend however, that because big pharma can't patent ozone, in keeping with their historical performance, they would "lobby" to have a scare tactic thrown into the works to inhibit people from using it. As I said in my last post, I'm sill alive and kicking.....with no signs of respitary distress.
    I believe that the corona discharge actually produces N2O, nitrous oxide, which binds with the haemoglobin in our blood and does not release the way oxygen and carbon dioxide do. This has the effect of making those haemoglobin complexes unavailable for O2/CO2 transport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew1966 View Post
    I believe that the corona discharge actually produces N2O, nitrous oxide, which binds with the haemoglobin in our blood and does not release the way oxygen and carbon dioxide do. This has the effect of making those haemoglobin complexes unavailable for O2/CO2 transport.
    last post on this matter.
    Is that a belief system, or provable FACT?

  7. #126
    Supporting Member DIYSwede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew1966 View Post
    I believe that the corona discharge actually produces N2O, nitrous oxide, which binds with the haemoglobin in our blood and does not release the way oxygen and carbon dioxide do. This has the effect of making those haemoglobin complexes unavailable for O2/CO2 transport.
    Thanks for pointing out my initial missing "O" and bad proofreading, Drew1966. N2O/ Nitrous oxide is the released gas, of course!
    N2 is already around us, just as Oldkodger stated...
    Sorry - my bad!

    Johan

    PS: Nitrous Oxide (a k a "Laughing Gas") is no laughing matter:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Safety
    Last edited by DIYSwede; 04-23-2020 at 09:34 AM. Reason: added link

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  9. #127
    Jon
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    (Moved four politically-themed posts out of this thread and into Off-Topic. This is a good discussion, and I want to preserve its value.)

    Some supply chain updates. Is there a meat/dairy shortage impending for USA? We've certainly noticed that Amazon Fresh is limiting our order quantities of meat and dairy, and, for some orders, we're not getting some of the meat and milk that we ordered. On the one side, we have the issue of meat processing plants becoming COVID outbreak hotspots, which is exacerbated by the fact that farmers have limited windows of time in which they can slaughter animals for delivery to processing plants and ultimately the consumer market. On the other hand is the argument that large US meat packing companies are positioning for government bailout funds.

    Fuel prices are dropping. We scheduled a propane tank fillup, and the per-gallon price was much lower than it usually is. One gas station near us had run out of gas, and a rumor was circulating in our town that another gas station had watered down its gas. Fuel stabilizer on Amazon is still available, but I had to poke around a bit to get a gallon of it from a third-party seller.

    From the U.S. Coast Guard Los Angeles twitter feed, here's a short video of tanker vessels anchored off the coast:



    We're starting to see some proposals for changes to common objects that consumers interact with. Behold the Finnish Fortum Lever, for opening grocery store refrigerated doors with your forearm. Is this the same forearm that we're supposed to sneeze into? And also bump our elbows with people to replace handshakes? Or is that just a transitional narrative to ease us into the reality that touching is dangerous now?



    Similarly, here's the CleanKey. Stuff like this will be easy for our guys to make. I wouldn't mind an accompanying sleeve for it, so that it doesn't just go back in your pocket. 0:44 video:



    Then there's this reversed middle seat concept with droplet shields, for preventing infection on airplanes, from Italian company Avio Interiors. Is that woman holding an invisible cup?



    More: https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2020/0...9-janus-seats/

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  11. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSwede View Post
    Thanks for pointing out my initial missing "O" and bad proofreading, Drew1966. N2O/ Nitrous oxide is the released gas, of course!
    N2 is already around us, just as Oldkodger stated...
    Sorry - my bad!

    Johan

    PS: Nitrous Oxide (a k a "Laughing Gas") is no laughing matter:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Safety
    Aside from the omission of the "O" that is not the only error, (according to, I think it was wiki..) N2O nitrous oxide (laughing gas) has a half life of around 5 minutes and is breathed out in very short order. HOWEVER, NO2, is nitrogen dioxide, and IS dangerous in high concentrations, does have a smell (N2O is odourless), and does indeed irritate lung etc
    So in regard of my original post. I stand corrected in that being in the room with an ozone generator might not be such a good idea, but I'M still not displaying adverse effects.....yet.

  12. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by old kodger View Post
    I stand corrected in that being in the room with an ozone generator might not be such a good idea, but I'M still not displaying adverse effects.....yet.
    AFAIK only the corona discharge ozone units (working with air input) generate N2O, not the low pressure UV discharge lamp types
    (who also, due to their way of operation, cannot reach very high ozone levels in air: less than 0,5% of weight) -
    but personally, I give at least half an hour after turn-off before entering a treated space.

    Regarding NOx, I've not seen any reports on that being formed in any ozone producing unit,
    but mostly through combustion at fairly high temperatures (cars, furnaces and the like surrounding us).

    2 cents, YMMV

    Johan

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    Quoting "Regarding NOx, I've not seen any reports on that being formed in any ozone producing unit,
    but mostly through combustion at fairly high temperatures (cars, furnaces and the like surrounding us)."

    Agreed, however, and this is rationalizing only, if a corona discharge unit is capable of cracking air into it's component parts, I see no reason why, if N2 can recombine with O to produce N2O, which according to all the pundits does not cause respiratory distress, that N could just as easily recombine with two O to produce NO2, which does.
    I recognize that I'm arguing against my own first post, but when someone challenges my long held beliefs, I try to do unbiased research, if that research turns up evidence that my belief is incorrect, I must accept the outcome.

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