To make the height gauge hold a dial indicator, I used some 7/16" square brass stock I had. I made one for 3/8" stems, and another for 8mm stem.
The screw on the end is 10-32. So to finish this, I need to make some brass thumb screws. These fit in place of the carbide tipped scribe.
I didn't see this posted by anyone, which I was hoping to see for a better design.
Attachment 17385Attachment 17386
I make no claims that mine is better but it is different to yours and I think somewhat quicker to make. It has a bit more flexibility in that you can turn the gauge such that the plunger is horizontal. There are times when that can be useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
Attachment 17398
Here is the holding piece, some rectangular bar with a single hole and rounded end.
Attachment 17399 Attachment 17400
The assembly.
One of the most useful height gauge accessories I've made is the skinny probe...
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/h...ge-probe-27844
for measuring down in holes where the supplied gauge probe won't fit.
It would be a simple addition to either of the holders described above. Simply drill a hole and thread it for a rod or fit a setscrew to secure an unthreaded rod.
Tony:Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Thanks, that exactly what I was hoping for was different ideas on modifications to a surface plate height gage. I didn't think of the lug mount. I've been machining for 40+ years, but only recently have gotten into surface plate usage and measurements. My metrology tools are still limited. I don't have a cylindrical square, or precision compound angle plate yet. I'm thinking at $180 for a 3x6 inch cylindrical, I would attempt to make one on the lathe, and tool post grind the final surface cut. So far the measurement needs were for a tapered sleeve, so a sine plate, Jo blocks, and bench center were the first surface plate "furniture" I purchased.
Marv:Quote:
Originally Posted by mklotz
Thanks, that is another tool to make for the height gage. "Playing" on the surface plate is a new hobby direction. So I'm still in learn mode with using it to make parts measurements. Up till now, the only 'tenths' measurements were for ball bearing press fits. I let the machine (and my setup) do it's best for square and parallel. Which has not been a problem until I ran into one on the lathe. Namely the sleeve in the headstock that reduces what was thought to be a 6MT (per the manual), to the 4MT center. Pretty sure it's a DIN 90mm gauge line 20:1 metric taper. 6MT is about 1" smaller diameter (7MT is too small as well), so I have no idea what the China manufacture draftsman was trying to describe. I recently purchased a Federal dial indicator ADG1 size that is small enough to fit inside the spindle bore. I verified the 20:1 taper (off by 0.01mm per 40mm, and I need to cross check with another indicator to validate it does not have error). I also learned the import indicator mag holders I had were horrible at dealing with the small spring forces of the indicator (when cantilevered out 6 inches). So I just got a Noga, WOW. Again, my dial indicator measurements were really only runout on the lathe, I think this was the first time I've used one for absolute measurement for a taper angle. The bottom zero adjust is a must from here on out. I thought my mag bases were OK, till I put them on the surface plate and they all rock. I guess $15-$25 is not enough for the manufacture to grind them flat. The stiffness of the Noga is really impressive.
Thanks
In addition to a DI holder you'll want to provide for a way to mount a DTI, preferably one that reads to tenths. I simply tapped a hole into the side of my holder and mounted a cross-drilled rod that accepts the DTI stem.
My main use for the DTI is to provide repeatable measuring pressure. For example, comparing a workpiece height to a reference Jo block height... Touch off on the Jo block with the DTI tip and note the dial reading. Now touch the work in such a way as to repeat that dial reading. Then the height difference measured on the height gauge is not influenced by human ability to reproduce touch pressure accurately.
When touching down on something it's all too easy to lift the height gauge foot slightly and thus create an erroneous reference. Using the DTI approach helps solve that problem.
I always use the lug for mounting wherever possible. If there is no lug or other good reason to prevent its use then I use a split clamp to hold the instrument by the barrel, as in the following photos which show a clamp mounting, holding a linear encoder. Sometimes I fit a dial gauge when I don't need great accuracy or don't need to read by Laptop.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
It would only be in exceptional cases that I would ever use a screw to clamp the barrel in a hole as you have done. There are 2 reasons for this.
1. It is the least kind method for the instrument, if tightened too much it will distort the barrel.
2. It is the least secure method. Unless the hole is a very good fit and reasonably long the gauge is likely to wobble about destroying accuracy. This imprecise fitting encourages over-tightening of the screw.
There are those who worry about the lack of precise vertical alignment, when using the lug, but these concerns are over exaggerated. Without much care it is easy to align the plunger to within say 0.5deg as a worst case. The effect of such misalignment is proportional to the cosine of the angular error. To put numbers to that, it means that over a movement range of 25mm the total error would be less than 1 micron for a 0.5 deg setup error. Or in other words 0.04 microns per 1mm. Way, way less than the resolution and accuracy of most any dial gauge, and also way less than the effect of minor temperature changes.
Attachment 17483 Attachment 17484
On the left the encoder is clamped for use on a surface plate. On the right it is mounted in place of a lathe toolpost for measuring camshaft profiles. The large hole in the block is a legacy of the block's previous use. just a nice heavy piece out of the scrap box, hardened and ground on the bottom and sides so ideal for its new use.
Here is another example of clamping on the shank that I posted a while back.
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/p...5372#post81710
Thanks Marv.Quote:
Originally Posted by mklotz
The next tool is a height gauge holder for the DTI. As it's apparent I need this for the stiffness when above the surface plate 12 or so inches. I recently purchase a surface gauge (used), which has a sloppy zero adjust. Seeing the 'buggered' screw head (for the hinge of the rocker), this was a problem to the previous owner. I don't know if there is a shim missing, but the rocker plate has much clearance to the machined slot this fits. It's an 'antique' of unknown maker (it does appear manufactured, with old chipped black paint on the sides). I'm of the belief now that the previous owner disassembled this and lost some shim. I Probably should buy a used Starrett. The seem to be pricey if they are complete and not rusty (eBay).
I'll make another holder for the DTI, as I've got many feet of this square brass stock. I assume I don't need to use tool steel for this as it's a holder and not relying on a machined surface for accuracy. The main effort was to 'whittle' the end down to fit the existing clamp of the scriber, as I'm mimicking this geometry. The DTI I have, came with 2 different dovetail mounts. Seems the large one would be the one that would be held with the least compliance from 'my' machining tolerance. I'm thinking the end mount dovetail would be the best general purpose mount to accommodate. Seems this would give the best reach on a larger part.
Thanks Tony,Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
For lathe 'dialing in' the lug mount is how my current setup is.
I'm new to surface plate work, so still in learning mode. I've not machined many split clamps (the lathe tails stock quill, and drill press spindle both for depth measurement tooling are the only ones I can think of). So small thin slits I've not done, (and I don't think I have a thin saw in my tooling). Time for eBay search.
How accurate is the linear encoder? I'm looking for something to use on the surface grinder, as I can't trust the down feed dial.
From looking at your piston crown thickness gauge, and your camshaft lobe metrology, you must do custom engine work needing such measurements. Is this for hobby or 'prostitution'?:D
Steve
Hi guys, I have found that rather than buy a cylinder square, look around for some wrist pins from a large diesel engine. They are usually hardened ,ground,and sometimes chrome plated. Better yet you can them for free!!!! BLF
Steve,Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
You can make perfectly good slits using nothing more than a hacksaw. If you need wide slots you can load two blades in the same saw. i know that hand tools have passed out of fashion but they still have their uses, and often are the quickest way to achieve an objective.
i envy you for having a surface grinder. i could really do with one as well as a cylindrical version, oh yes I might as well add a cam grinder whilst fantasising. The encoder pictured is/was 1 micron accuracy with 5 micron resolution using the usual X4 quadrature trick. However, it is with some embarrassment that I have to confess to recently zapping that encoder, accidentally applying 12v to it when 5v is desired and 5.5v is the limit. I found it NOS on ebay for $180, it was a bargain as shown when I asked for a repair quote from Heidenhain. Repair would have been £400 and renewal £1000. More googling and I found a new Ono Sokki GS-1830 Linear Gauge Sensor 30mm for $200 which should arrive this week. That has 1 micron resolution and 2 micron accuracy. So good quality examples are out there for good prices if you look and get lucky. There are dozens of cheap Chinese rotary encoders on the market which work pretty well but I have been unsuccessful with finding similar cheap versions of linear encoders, so new from regular suppliers means $1000 and up unless you get lucky on the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
Regarding the cam lobe measurer, I feed the rotary and linear encoder outputs into an Arduino for decoding and then pass it on to a Laptop via USB where it gets processed and plotted in analysis software that I wrote, which also combines it with flow bench data.
I have just turned 73 so I'm a bit old for prostitution any more. Hobby is a bit mild, "life time passion" would be closer. i used to race motorcycles semi-seriously and now I race in classic events and I try to spend all my non-racing time sleeping or building/preparing my bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
In the 70s and 80s I had a business in the UK making bike chassis, many of which have won championships around the world. Since the late 80s i moved to live in Spain and since then I have not done any physical construction for others, finding it easier to tell others how to. In other words I became a madam. So I turned to writing, doing seminars and developing software etc. You can see more of my history and activities by looking at the following links in addition to a few posts that I have made on this forum, Homemade Tools built by tonyfoale - HomemadeTools.net . Although I seem to have gained the reputation as the chassis guru it has always been engines that have been a stronger interest.
TONY FOALE DESIGNS - Home page
Making stuff and having fun.
https://www.facebook.com/tony.foale.5
https://www.youtube.com/user/MotoChassis
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...99061223276003
I cheated and used the bandsaw to make the split cuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
I've recently purchased a China digital indicator 0.001mm resolution @12.5mm travel ($36, £29) which remarkable is pretty darn good so far. At least I have not seen any non-monotonic behavior in it's count. It seems to mimic a 2 micron resolution "Peacock" test indicator. I have no idea what method of digitization is contained in this battery operated indicator. It also has a SPC output port, so it could be read by an external computer for recording. It did not come with a deviation card, nor a stated accuracy. I just looked at 50mm travel and Mitutoyo from China (and probably fake) is ~$270. So I can find a solution, within my means.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Darn, I found a similar indicator to the one just purchased, and it states a 10micron accuracy, so 10X it's display resolution. I guess you have to pay for accuracy.
I retired 4 years ago (60 now). But I spent my "prostitution" life designing avionics for Collins Radio (autopilot, flight management, serial data switches, and protecting against lightning and HIRF, as well as preventing the emission of RFI). I started the metal working bug in high school, back when they had metal working shop (all gone since the 80's in US public schools). I'm mostly self taught, but with recent problems, youtube has been unbelievable in showing surface plate 'tricks'.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
I came to this site to get pointers on my missing knowledge.
Tony I could not agree more with your comments on the use of hand tools, I use them a lot ,files, hacksaws, scrapers etc. I see so much taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut these days and very often the task is done by the time it takes to set up a machine.
By the way I watched on of your post grad seminars in spain on u tube and found your background work fascinating, what surprised me a little was the lack of technical questions, mostly about plastics and batteries, sign of the times I suppose.
Regards
Alan
Alan, that was not one of my usual seminars, they are 2 to 3 day events. The talk in Barcelona was just a short presentation that I was asked to give to talk about my life with motorcycles, after I had given a course to engineering students there. It was organised by the university and open to anybody, there were a few notable engineers and designers there but mostly the audience was of a lowish technical level.Quote:
Originally Posted by olderdan
I mainly just do corporate seminars nowadays for concerns like tyre, suspension and motorcycle companies, some are filmed but only for distribution within the particular organisation. I am unaware that any such videos have escaped to the world at large.
Attachment 17499
Attachment 17500
Show time.
I did consider that option and I do have a cable on its way to me. BTW cables to plug straight in to the data ports are not common, few sellers have them, and many people just solder directly on to the terminals. There are several different data formats used in Chinese calipers etc. some use +ve earth others -ve earth, so check first. Some send data and clock pulses at a regular frequency. Some send bursts of 2x12bit data, others send BCD. Some use query and response methods. However, most formats are well documented on the net and Mr. Google will respond kindly if you ask nicely. It is just a matter of looking at the o/p to see which format your device uses.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
On my camshaft reader i use a quadrature rotary encoder for angular position and I wanted to use interrupts to count the linear motion pulses and a quadrature linear encoder is the easiest way to link the two. This was the principal reason for going the encoder route. If I had had to pay dealer prices then I would have somehow worked out how to do it with a digital dial gauge. I wanted to do it all more or less automatically and before I fried the original encoder it took about 3 secs to get the whole profile measured and plotted. To do it manually using a rotary table to set 1 degree intervals and then reading and recording from a gauge would take around 2 hours.
Tony, I found the same issue:Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
I tried several years ago to get one for the Mititoyo vertical mill quill digital indicator, and had zero luck finding a cable that could interface to some affordable SPC reader. I had only tried eBay. I was hoping there would have been an ISA card for the PC (now a PCI or USB card would be wanted). I did find a web site that discouraged me, with the lack of any data standard for the many digital scales out there (as you stated). If you can't get it into a data stream and captured in the PC, makes it tough to go the cheep route, as I don't want to fit the mill with ballscrews, and felt this would provide a feedback means of a low cost CNC.
Yes I could get some micro controller, but then I'd be spending many hours horsing around with software code, and that's not really how I want to spend my time these days.
Even finding a quadrature decoder/counter off the shelf requires a micro controller to read and transfer the data.
I'm whittling metal with out the CNC help, and at this moment, I have no project held up for this.
Steve
this the only offering I have been able to find worldwide. ebay.com 252491415529Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
i can understand that, but there is a lot of info on the net, as someone has worked out how to read each format. many use an Arduino as the interface twix PC and instrument. I find it amazing that most manufacturers fit the data port but provide no help with using it. A lost marketing opportunity I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
That is so simple it is almost trivial. When I get my new encoder I intend to post something here including the Aduino code (Sketch as they call it)Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
Very nice idea but I have only seen this used on critical bolting applications. Do you have a pic, or a brand that can be used in metrology? I assume Rennishaw, CMMs, and other probing applications use this idea but it appears to be imbedded in code and not readily visible the user. What DTI is available to use manually?Quote:
Originally Posted by mklotz
The Mitutoyo, a 5 pin:Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfoale
Attachment 17535
And
eBay item number: 172578890127 but no detail photo, to determine if this will fit.
And then there's bunches of cables at this site: Mitutoyo Spc Cable | Factory Brand Outlets
It's a job to figure out which will work. And then you still need to reverse engr. the pinout for data and clock, and then write a bit banger to decode the data stream.
I did that in my past life, it just is not something I want to do. If some simple PLC box with an interpreter language existed, that had 16+ I/O with quadrature decoders built in along with up/down counters, so you would not have to do interrupt driven code (did lots of that too), I could see working through to make some machine enhancement devices.
I bet Mitutoyo, does not want anyone to de-crypt their SPC port, as they want to sell the hardware and software. But your right, why wouldn't the low end of China manufactures want to do this, other then they too can sell the reader hardware, as it's useful for a DRO.
I have looked into the Arduino, but my interest in learning ANOTHER program language just does not 'titillate' me.
Just this morn, I was looking at how to get Mach3 to work on a computer that does not have a printer port. So I go down the path of GRex or ncPod (learned this was the path to USB), and this opens an enormous chasm of how ignorant I am to PC hardware. And then reading posts from a few blogs, my mind gives up. I want something super simple, download the code, plug in the interface card to a USB port, hook up the servos, and encoders, and watch the machine move the desired amount.
Then there's the CAD to learn, and how to build the G code from this. I have several dials that need to me made, so engraving with a 4th axis would be handy.
We'll see if I ever get there.
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Thanks metric_taper! We've added your Surface Plate Height Gauge Adaptor to our Measuring and Marking category,
as well as to your builder page: metric_taper's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:
<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-surface-plate-height-gauge-adaptor"> <img src="/uploads/168713/homemade-surface-plate-height-gauge-adaptor.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-surface-plate-height-gauge-adaptor">Surface Plate Height Gauge Adaptor</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/metric_taper">metric_taper</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/holder'>holder</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/adaptor'>adaptor</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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i didn't know about the 5 pin o/p. I have some Mitutoyo instruments but they are 4 pin. The cable that I am getting is 4 pin and AFAIK all the chinese stuff is too. I know that, at least the 4 pin, Mitutoyo uses a query/response data format. i.e. Your display unit sends an update request to the device and then it sends you a data packet. The chinese scales send data packets continuously at regular intervals.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
the Arduino makes this stuff very, very easy. The extent of coding it for interrupts is a single command "ATTACHINTERRUPT(pin no., HIGH/LOW or CHANGING)"Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
I haven't done it, but others have decoded it and put details on the net, in some cases even with Arduino code.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
It didn't appeal to me either, I have been writing code since 1960 and have had to go through several languages along the way. For that reason I was slow to look at the Arduino. I had been using LabJack (labjack.com) for my DAQ and interface needs, that is totally controlled under the PC code and so there was nothing extra to learn, but then I had an application which needed a standalone micro so I was forced to start playing with the Arduino. It is very easy to do quite complex stuff. It has its own IDE for code writing and micro programming through the USB port. The code is C like but you only have to learn a little of the C syntax to be up and running. I am now a convert and wish that I had done it earlier, it would have saved me a lot of time. I now have an application for which the Arduino is not suitable and I'm going to have to use a PI Rasberry. I know little about it but I am NOT looking forward to it, I think it is Linux based and I know nothing about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
Easy. Use ethernet instead. That's how I control my mill.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
With the right hardware, and there is plenty of that around, it can be pretty much that simple. When I have enough time I was going to document my efforts in that direction and post here but it'll need to be long.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
Yes I really should learn CAD but I believe that software should be easy to use and the fact that courses are commonplace to teach CAD is enough to indicate that ease of use for newbies is not a built in feature. So far I have managed by hand coding G-code and I have written some software for automatically producing G-code for some specific uses that I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
When I graduated, long before PC CAD, I was given a drawing office, so even though I knew how to draw, I had a team of draftsmen to do that for me. Then I had my own business before PC CAD came along and I designed on a drawing board. When PC CAD became available I had little need for drawings so there was no need to learn it. Now it would be useful to be able to use CAD occasionally, but nowhere near enough to warrant the time needed to learn it. Even daily CAD jockeys find some operations difficult to do, let alone an occasional geriatric user.
A few years ago I was working with a famous race car designer on a project. He said that when he started out in the business, the conversation over the lunch table was about suspension geometry, roll centres and other performance related stuff. When CAD came along he said that the conversations had changed to "how do I draw this". For this project he ordered a huge drawing board so that he could layout full size prints of the car. he was a skilled CAD jockey himself but nothing replaced the full size version that you could pencil draw on.
There are numerous makers of tenths DTIs. My preference is for Mitutoyo, such as these...Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltfever
"Quick Set" Dial Test Indicators
but Brown & Sharpe, Interapid and Starrett are quality brands.
Tony:
I need to research the Ethernet interface to Mach3, but the controllers all seem to want the printer port, I need to look further.
I never liked the syntax of "C", but I did have to do collateral work on designs of others, amazingly, it never stayed in my head, unlike BASIC, FORTRAN, PL1, PASCAL and any number of Assembly mnemonics. But I'm believing the only low cost kits I see are Arduino based development. I also see many frustrated coders on blog sites trying to figure out where they went wrong, especially with quad encoder, as they are servicing this with interrupt vs having a peripheral counter.
There was a CAD program a few weeks ago I downloaded "freeCAD", which was a frustration to work with. I too had the minions that did the draftting at work. I did learn AutoCAD, but it was mostly 2d type drawings. The one thing I liked about it, if a few years pass between uses, I could pick up, and start drawing without any effort.
I did find a cheep DRO kit (yet to be installed on the drill press X-Y table and quill) to use a 4 pin interface. But I purchased the reader for that, which has a X-Y-Z LCD display. I don't think there was a way to get an external data stream. But my want was to be able to drill a matrix of holes automatically. Another wayside project.
Looking at your casting of a 4 stroke intake, exhaust port, cylinder head geometry, and measuring flow, and computing flow rate improvement is a SERIOUS petro head hobby. I didn't see from your text, what DAS you had to do this. But clearly you are "in deep" with IP of engine design. Looks like you are working with a 'hemi' configuration.
I didn't understand the shear tool, as it looks more like it's burnishing the work vs scraping. I'm missing something.
Steve, lots more to read of your skills.
Steve,Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
I bought a Bridgeport mill which had been fitted from new with an Anilam control and driver system. Which was definitely old tech when I got it. It worked OK but the RS232 port and proprietry mini-tape recorder/reader refused all efforts at communication, which meant that I had to punch in the programme each time I wanted to use it. This got tiring real quick so I started to look around for a replacement controller which could be PC driven. I had perfectly good servos, motor drivers and glass slides which I wanted to keep. I also had duplicates of all that. Whilst i found stacks of systems out there they all seemed to be aimed at or included stepper motors and rotary encoders. Apart from the expense of replacing everything I had no intention of downgrading from the servos and linear slides. Finding a suitable controller was not easy but I ended up going for a Galil card with 4 axis. More costly than I was planning but top quality stuff and worked with Mach3 with a plug-in and ethernet. It also did the processing on the card rather than in the PC. Mach3 basically said "I want to here" and the Galil card worked out how to. the PI in PID was done on the card and the D was done within the original drivers. So it was a closed loop system with the card closing the loop with Mach3 working open loop just sending demands. On a Windows OS with all its quirks this is probably the best way to do it. Although I don't do Linux I would have gone to Linux CNC except that it was not compatible with the Galil. I have recently learnt that Galil now have some Linux support so I may revisit it.
All this is a long way of saying how I used ethernet with Mach3.
i have never liked C syntax either. I started with Fortran IV, hand written fixed format coding sheets and punched cards. I avoided BASIC where possible, now I mostly use Delphi, which is object Pascal for Windows. I agree that a peripheral counter is preferable but as long as the frequency is not too high, interrupts do the job. A side effect of the uptake of the Arduino and other systems which provide easy ways to use micros is that a large proportion of users do not have much in the way of coding or other technical skills so you get a lot of frustrated coders as you observe. It is not an indication that it is difficult, in fact it is the reverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
I mostly use a LabJack for collecting data. The engines that get most of my attention are Aermacchi 4 strokes (HD sprints in American). In the early 1970s I raced them and when I started classic racing in my dotage I decided to race a replica of what I used to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
The best I can offer by way of explanation, is to imagine the shear tool being dragged across a non-rotating work piece, I think that will show a shaping action. Shear tool is not my term and I don't like it because it causes confusion, but it is the accepted term for that type of tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by metric_taper
This is hilarious. In all my years in the industry I have never been exposed to DTI as a “dial” test indicator. While “dial indicator” is basic machinist language the Test indicator in my environment was always referred as just a test indicator. The word “test” was the defining characteristic since it had better resolution and a more versatile body.Quote:
Originally Posted by mklotz
When you mentioned “DTI” I googled it and came up with Digital Tension Indicator. That seemed to fit in perfectly with the theme of this thread and I thought I had missed yet another nugget of wisdom. That led to my reply requesting information about your device for “digital tension measurement” and my reference to probing programs.
The absolute king of acronym use is still the military followed closely by the medical field. However, in its short life compared to the others, the digital world is now just as cryptic. ROTFLMAO at my misunderstanding and apologies to all. :lol:
I have to admit that, in your first post, you seemed to have not connected with what I had written, but, being unsure and not wishing to offend, I let it slide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltfever
I'm a self-taught, completely amateur, hobbyist machinist. I've never spent a day on the shop floor nor have I ever worked in a machine shop. As a result, there are the inevitable gaps in my knowledge of both technique and terminology. I've always heard it referred to as a DTI so that's the term I use.
In some support of that terminology, if you visit the Acronym Finder website...
Abbreviations and acronyms dictionary
and enter DTI, "Dial Test Indicator" shows up, right above "Direct Tension Indicator", so the term must be in general use somewhere.
ROTFLBTCDICAJTTWADBSIHPWTRHITSBKABAYB is arguably the longest acronym known but I've never seen it used. If you can't unravel it, it's decoded here...
Urban Dictionary: ROTFLBTCDICAJTTWADBSIHPWTRHITSBKABAYB
Marv,Quote:
Originally Posted by mklotz
Just a bit of common sense is enough to substitute for all the training in the world.
Amateurs do stuff because they have an interest, many professionals do it only to put food on the table. Never under estimate a talented amateur.
I knew exactly what DTI meant, as it was in context to this whole thread. So I was confused by Saltfever writing on "bolting applications", then it came clear with the next post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mklotz
I got "Rolling On The Floor", but no way I could guess the rest of it.
From avionics background, three letter acronyms (TLA) are how all technical discussions are shortened (that's probably true in all technical arenas). I remember when I started work, having to learn this new language until you didn't have to translate them in your mind. And much time was spent assigning TLA's when new functions or black boxes, (which use TLA for it's name, e.g. FCC, FMC, ADS and minions more), were conceived. There's 26 cubed available, not all usable. The software code was limited to 8 character names back when main frames were the computing power. Lots of creative coding names to pretend we had some structure to the code.
So one of smartest guys I worked with, in autopilot flight control, created a variable PDMWTRD, "Please Don't Mess With The Radio Data", which was a Boolean sent to the navigation radios that was intended to stop them from going into test mode (pilot sitting in seat can push a test button), when the autopilot was coupled to their output and flying a course based on their data (VOR, ILS, and such). To this day I can remember what this meant.
Steve
Back in the 1970s and early 80s motorcycle manufacturers fell in love with TLAs for various features. I built a bike with an unusual front suspension. see here; https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...KTd4JKeMncxv5F
One day the editor of a motorcycle magazine came to my workshop to prepare an article on it. He wanted to know what to call it and as a dig at the common use of TLAs I said that he could call it an FFE. He insisted that I tell him what it meant, after a bit of mock reticence i relented and said that it stood for "Funny Front End". He was aghast and complained that he couldn't write that. He continued badgering me for another name and I told him that I had been joking before and its real name was BSS. Again he insisted on the expanded version which of course was "Bloody Silly Steering". He gave up after that and wrote in his article that while I took my engineering seriously, I didn't with much else.
Oh, BTW. The real name was FFE and that TLA seems to have stuck and has been taken up widely. I never used BSS again.
Klotz's conjecture states...
By now, every TLA has a meaning somewhere in the world in some language.
Yes, amazing how they stick, someplace mid career, the FLA (Four L A) started being in vogue (ran out of TLA available). And there is that British legal Acronym, (at least that's the story from Ann Landers) Fornication Under Carnal Knowledge. Probably stuck as a Saxon type single syllable word you can yell. Forgive me if I offend any UK sorts.
Things were much better back in the days of WWII when the Brits gave meaningful names to their (sometimes dubious) weaponry. The one that springs to mind immediately is the Great Panjandrum...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjandrum
They had the Bangalore torpedo for dealing with barbed wire...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangalore_torpedo
perfectly named if you've ever seen one detonated. I always thought their "Grand Slam" bunker buster was a perfect naming too.
We contributed Fat Man, Little Boy, the Trench Broom and a bunch of others.
I suppose all these weapons had bureaucratic TLAs assigned to them but it's the colorful terms that stick in our minds.
Not meaning to lead this thread further off the intended subject I just want to throw in the acronym for Stow High In Transit originated sometime in the 16th century
as a way to let sailors know to store the bundles of dried manure high enough below decks to prevent it from becoming wet from sea water since it would not only be much heavier but would ferment and produce methane gas. Imagine carrying a lantern down in the hold where bundles of wet fermenting manure were filling the bowels of a ship with methane gas. A guarantee to ruing everyone's day
If it sounds hard to believe it probably is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank S
This is nothing more than a smelly whopper that's been circling the internet drain for a long time. Whenever you hear seeming whoppers like this, check Snopes to get the real poop.
Etymology of ****
