Thread Identifier Caddy

Years ago I bought a pair of Imperial and metric thread identifiers for small nuts and screws (for example see https://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Co...thread+checker ). The set of thread identifiers are very handy. The checkers are strung on steel cables and this keeps the sets organized but the cable makes it difficult to check threaded parts that can’t be removed. After seeing Marv’s Thread Checking board (see http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/t...4317#post63615 ), I wanted to organize my sets the same way. The caddies are made from ¾” red oak. I applied several coats of clear polyurethane from a spray can to seal the wood and protect it from oil. Below are photos of the Imperial thread version.

Attachment 15734

Attachment 15735

I also added a pair of missing UNF 6-40 and 8-36 thread checkers machined from 12L14 steel to complete the Imperial set for the typical UNC and UNF threads from #6 to ½”. I have the taps for these sizes but had to resort to single point chasing the external threads and verifying dimensions using the three wire method. The sets are not too expensive and I recommend buying rather than making unless you really want to improve your external threading technique and three wire measurement skills. I used a conventional single thread chasing technique to make these small thread parts.

Attachment 15737

However, I have started using the upside down threading tool in the QCTP and lathe in reverse threading technique demonstrated by Joe Pieczynski on his You Tube channel (Published on Jun 9, 2016) and highly recommend this technique.

Thank you for looking,

Paul

I bought the set of metric thread checkers, mainly because my collection of metric screws, taps and dies is not very complete and making a thread checker board like the one I showed would have required buying a bunch of stuff for which I would have only limited use.

Like Paul, I soon realized that the cable was great for keeping them organized but really got in the way when you have to use the thread checker on a nut/bolt secured to a structure. The individual checkers should be sold in a case of some sort that keeps them together and organized but still removable for individual use. However, it's easy to sever the cable with a cutoff disk and mount them on a board as Paul and I have done.

Screw checker plates, e.g.,

https://www.amazon.com/SAE-Inch-Scre...ead+identifier

have their place (indeed, I have several) but are impossible when dealing with a stud attached to a structure. That's where these thread checkers, either the commercial model or self-assembled like mine, justify their cost.

At first I only saved specialized fasteners and brackets off of units I'd replaced to do a repair in the shop. Then I just started keeping all fasteners. One whole drawer of an old 3 drawer tool box I inherited has that 40yrs of accumulation loosely divided into metric bolts, standard bolts, mixed nuts, mixed washers. There is everything in there, somewhere :)

Over the last couple of big yard sales I've been concentrating on storage cabs so now I think I'm prepared to start sorting through that drawer. There is also the crazy jumble of stuff that is the 2 tray units I bought years ago from Mac to go on the bottom drawer of my main toolbox. That is my shiny objects repository from like scrapped carburetors, and other cool units. Those trays have saved my butt and co workers more times than I can count! But how to organize it so I can find it again....that is the big question.

These checkers are a great first step. My concern is one of the dings on the checkers is they don't have permanent marks on them as to size. Is this just one reviewers gripe and they fixed it, or does your caddy help keep the size in order and you don't need to worry about it?

Thanks Marv and C-Bag,

I have the same concern about loosing track of the thread sizes even though the caddy has exact holes that only fit a particular thread diameter (and the pitch could be cross checked with a thread gage). Currently the thread checkers I bought have an adhesive label that may eventual loosen and be lost. I am considering using a fine point permanent maker (e.g., those from Micron, Staedtler, or Sakura Microperm - all available at Michaels) and labeling each hole like Marv did on his thread checker board. We could also use an engraver to mark the shanks of the thread checkers.

By the way if you restore Starrett tools, you will find that many of the Starrett products have their own unique screw thread pitch and diameter combinations that are either in the unusual special thread series or unique to Starrett (see http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/b...8166#post53090 ).

Paul

The metric one I bought...

https://www.amazon.com/Nut-Bolt-Thre...read+detective

has the size permanently engraved into each piece as can be seen by mousing over the last product photo on that page.

Given the fact that the piece is held in the fingers and rotated in use, almost any write-on label is likely to wear. Sharpie now sells oil-based paint markers in medium point...

https://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Oil-B...+markers&psc=1

and extra-fine point...

https://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Oil-B...arpie+metallic

Once dry they might resist wear a bit better.

I haven't tried them yet but intend to order some of both on my next Amazon order. I love their metallic color (gold, silver, bronze) markers for marking dark-colored or black objects. The markings really stand out.

I have to agree on Starrett's pernicious use of proprietary threads. I ran into that while restoring the fine adjustment screw on a height gage I inherited. Strange practice considering that the bulk of their customers probably have access to a screw-cutting lathe and know how to use it.

Nice tip Paul about the inverted threading tool! Thanks!

I used to use Paint marking pens that are much more permanent than sharpies and not too costly. They also come in bright colors. They take a while to dry properly but once they are they last for years even with grease/oil and solvents. Don't fall for the acrylic ones as the prep is a pita but the enamel ones will go on even a slightly dirty surface.

I had a yellow bottle dispenser unit with a roller ball in my tool box for many years (10-15) which finally dried out a couple of years ago now.

Paint Pens and Markers - Buy Dykem, Markal, Sharpie Paint Pens Online

I also agree about the odd ball fastener pitches and sizes. It seems strange that someone would invent a unique thread for anything other than to have it a proprietary build. Creating the tooling for it has to be costly let a lone supply chain. Browning's 1911 is another good example hairy odd balls. The grip screw bushings are .2360-60 UNS-2A THD and the actual grip screws are .1500-50 UNS-2A/B THD. I guess if you bust a grip and lose a screw you are SOL without a "Browning Store" in your local war zone. Maybe it was the wild west back then and still forming standards...who's nose?

Standards in the USA? You've got to be kidding. Usonians seem to think that any form of standardization, no matter how reasonable, is an attack on their freedom. Hence their irrational resistance to the metric system.

And even when they do agree to some standardization they botch it up. Drill progressions that have unequal increments (number and letter), backwards non-informative labeling (drills, sheet/wire gages), antiquated units based on animals (horsepower, acres), etc..

PJs,

Thank you for the tip on where to see a broad selection of paint pens that are grease and oil proof.

Paul

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Thanks Paul Jones! We've added your Thread Checker Caddy to our Storage and Organization category,
as well as to your builder page: Paul Jones's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

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Thanks Paul Jones! We've added your Thread Checkers to our Measuring and Marking category,
as well as to your builder page: Paul Jones's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:

<div id="blocks"> <div class="block b1 pngfix"> <div class="bimg"> <div> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-thread-checkers"> <img src="/uploads/163253/homemade-thread-checkers.jpeg"/> </a> </div> </div> <div class="head pngfix"></div> <div class="left pngfix"></div> <div class="right pngfix"></div> <div class="blockover b1 pngfix"> <div class="title"> <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-thread-checkers">Thread Checkers</a> <span> by <a href="http://www.homemadetools.net/builder/Paul+Jones">Paul Jones</a></span> </div> <div class="tags">tags: <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/machining'>machining</a>, <a href='http://www.homemadetools.net/tag/measurement'>measurement</a> </div> </div> </div> </div>
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Joe PIE is the bomb isn't he? I have watched nearly all of his vids

I finally finished my metric thread identification caddy. I didn't have the M2.5-0.45 and the M3-0.5 gages and made these from 12L14 steel.

Attachment 22817

The machining was very easy using taps and dies to make the thread gages.

Attachment 22818 Attachment 22819

I used a P-Touch labeller for thread gage ID but had to use contact cement to permanently attach the clear labels.
Attachment 22820 Attachment 22821

Thank you for looking,
PaulJones

Whenever I buy a new tap/die set (I usually buy the two together), I use them to make a screw and nut sample to keep in the pill bottle with the tap/die. This provides me gauges for testing threads produced later with the tools as well as identifiers for unknown threads. I thoroughly recommend this habit.

Despite having both inferial and metric thread checkers, for some reason it never occurred to me to make the sample as a single piece and mount them in a holder for ready reference. I must train myself to do that in the future.

Marv,

I was taken by surprise during my simple addition of making the M2.5-0.45 and M3-0.5 thread gages when I discovered the die diameters for cutting the treads were 20 mm and not 13/16" in diameters. I bought the dies years ago and never thought to check the diameters until I started using them. I do not have any die stocks or a lathe die stock for the 20 mm diameter dies.

I made a simple 20 mm ID sleeve with three pass-through screw holding holes for holding the dies in a 1" (25.4 mm) tailstock die holder. I will publish at HMT the very simply but useful selve for accommodating the smaller 20 mm die diameters.

Regards,
Paul Jones

Interesting. I haven't run into that problem yet. Were your dies bought from Europe? If so, the 20mm size would make sense. Most of mine were bought from USA suppliers so their diameters match those of inferial dies.

At any rate, it sounds like an easy fix.

Marv,

The metric dies were purchased years ago from Enco (now part of MSC) and are made in Japan. I have many precision tools, cutting tools and bearings made in Japan. The quality has always been very good.

The typical 13/16" dies are 0.8125" in diameter and the 20 mm dies are 0.7874" in diameter. Very easy to not notice the difference in diameters unless I laid one die on top of the other and looked closely to see the difference. Now that I know the difference I have found through the Internet several designs of the 20 mm diameter die stock holders for dies typically in the M2.5 to M6 ranges. Now I know the difference.

Thanks Marv,

Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mklotz

Standards in the USA? You've got to be kidding. Usonians seem to think that any form of standardization, no matter how reasonable, is an attack on their freedom. Hence their irrational resistance to the metric system...

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I had enough of that whilst working for I'm Bloody Marvellous, Idiot Bleeding Management, with some servo-writers originally designed in Rochester ending up with partial metric conversions as you couldn't get US bolts easily in Europe, wrote a piece about the issue back in the late 80's for a US trade association mag, boy that ruffled some feathers...

Idiot Business Molesters and Indian Broken Machines also work (from another Big Blue refugee).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeiljohnUK

I had enough of that whilst working for I'm Bloody Marvellous, Idiot Bleeding Management, with some servo-writers originally designed in Rochester ending up with partial metric conversions as you couldn't get US bolts easily in Europe, wrote a piece about the issue back in the late 80's for a US trade association mag, boy that ruffled some feathers...

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Even Usonian mnemonic devices are screwed up.

A popular one is "A pint's a pound the world around." Not only does this jingle ignore the density of the liquid, but a pint of water weighs 1.04318 pounds and that's only true in the USA where the size of a pint is less than in the UK. Who the hell uses volume units to measure weight ? More infuriating is the fluid ounce (floz); it appears to be a weight measure but is actually a volume measure.

Then there's the problem of a single name for a multiplicity of different measures...

There are seven different barrel sizes used in the USA, with the size being dependent on the contents. Their names and metric equivalents are as follows: US cranberry (95.5 liters), US dry (115.628 liters), US liquid (119.24 liters), US federal (117.348 liters), US federal proof spirits (151.416 liters), US drum (208.4 liters), US petroleum (135 kg.), US petroleum statistical (158.99 liters).

Marv, I worked 25 years for a major oil company in oil and gas exploration. We used both metric and imperial measurements on each single project. It was insane. I had to triple check all my calculations to make sure we were drilling exactly to total depth. The wells cost $10 million+ each and the worst case was going too shallow or too deep because of a metric/imperial conversion error.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Jones

Marv, I worked 25 years for a major oil company in oil and gas exploration. We used both metric and imperial measurements on each single project. It was insane. I had to triple check all my calculations to make sure we were drilling exactly to total depth. The wells cost $10 million+ each and the worst case was going too shallow or too deep because of a metric/imperial conversion error.

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The worst thing is for a country to attempt a gradual shift from inferial to metric as is the case in Canada and the UK. Thankfully, the Gimli Glider didn't kill anyone but only because they were lucky. Ultimately, mixing the two systems will kill people; probably has already and was secreted in the media.

Unfortunately, here in the dumbed down USA, the gradual introduction of metric has only led to a situation where the majority now has two measurement systems it doesn't understand.

Why buy those clumsy things when you already have the easiest way ever of checking threads, you can even keep this wondrous tool in your pocket eliminating that clumsy block of wood set-up alltogether. Oh, you can get them either in Metric or Mongrel as well.

Or, am I missing something here ? ---------------------------


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sealey-2...wAAOSwunBbF5fN

The thread gage gage works well but the tread measurement must include not only the number of threads but also the screw diameter. You can measure the screw diameter with calipers and then use the thread gage. The metric screw diameters are easier and more predictable than the imperial screw diameters. I own two metric and three imperial thread gages but typically use these for checking single point threading on my metal lathes. The worst case is propriety thread sizes like the ones used in Starrett tools. In these cases only a caliper and a thread gage will work. Here is a good example where I had to use a three wire method to exactly measure a propriety sized thread ( https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...8166#post53090 ). Thank you for your feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenie

Why buy those clumsy things when you already have the easiest way ever of checking threads, you can even keep this wondrous tool in your pocket eliminating that clumsy block of wood set-up alltogether. Oh, you can get them either in Metric or Mongrel as well.

Or, am I missing something here ? ---------------------------


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sealey-2...wAAOSwunBbF5fN

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Perhaps the major thing you're missing is tact.

Let's see...

Two thread gauges minimum (inferial and metric), perhaps more if working anywhere near stuff made in the UK or its colonies.
Calipers to measure diameters
Cheat sheet in case you can't solve the diameter to numbered bolt size equation in your head
Magnifier to detect those threads with near identical pitches
Flashlight so you can see what you're doing, especially if the stud is on the underside of the too heavy to lift structure

Better have really big pockets.

OK Marv, I'll have to agree, to disagree with you, on this lot.

So your working on site and your trying to tell me to lug that abomination around up on some scaffold, nope, sorry, I'll carry around the easy to use thread gauge.
You only need a 'standard size pocket' for thread gauges.

Think a few persons are trying to reinvent the wheel at times, why bother, eh ?

Oh, by the way, here in one of England's colonies, we have used that wondrous measurement called Metric for decades now, like over 50 yrs.
That M-O-N-G-R-E-L system, favoured by only 2 backward countries in the world, proves just how far out of touch they are, with the rest of the world. :lol:

Attachment 35680
My next project calls for wingnuts to fit 3/8” BSF thread. I often spend an evening sorting through garnered nuts, bolts, screws - the guys at work frequently muddle up the stock (“Philip, do you have a nut which fits my bike?”). Although they have been instructed to only TAKE OUT THINGS from cabinets, they seem to think they are doing everyone a favour by putting back soddments RANDOMLY!
These are temporary caddies to assist my search
Attachment 35681
These cabinets contain about a third of my stock of steel nuts and bolts, and, since there are some duplications, and some threads which are unidentified, I am going to go through them sometime to rationalise.
Attachment 35682
This is the result of going through the milk jug of assorted wingnuts.
I found only ONE wingnut that was BSF 3/8”.
The cabinets incidentally contain only ISO, BSW and BA nuts and bolts. I have the means to identify NF, BSF and BSP, but have very few examples.
Attachment 35683
These must have come from an antique piece of furniture. I defy anybody to identify the thread!
Regarding the comment about Starrett threads and other proprietary threads, the difficulty I have encountered most frequently is sourcing nuts to repair hand planes.
Hope you like my contribution to this interesting thread.

Looks like a very poorly formed, or very worn, Acme thread to me.

Thanks, NeilJohn. It’s a V-thread, 60 degrees, I think. If you like, I’ll post a pair to you!

Er, no, ta. I have more than enough 'stuff' to look after as it is... Thanks all the same!