Free 173 Best Homemade Tools eBook:  
Remove advertisements
Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 103

Thread: English/metric measurement error in the Mars Climate Orbiter

  1. #51
    Jon
    Jon is online now Jon has agreed the Seller's Terms of Service
    Administrator Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    14,817
    Thanks
    3,134
    Thanked 9,901 Times in 3,231 Posts
    The Mars Climate Orbiter was not the only ship to wreck due to a measurement system error during construction.

    The Vasa was a 64-gun Swedish warship that sank on its maiden voyage in 1628. It was raised largely intact in 1961 and restored. It's now displayed in the Vasa Museum in Stockholm, Sweden. One of the reasons it was thought to sink was the use of different measurement systems by the ship's carpenters.

    No wonder the ship tipped to the port side when the winds hit. But why was the ship so lopsided? While examining the ship, Hocker discovered four rulers the workmen had used. Those rulers were based on different standards of measurement at the time. Two were in Swedish feet, which were divided into twelve inches. The other two were in Amsterdam feet, which had eleven inches in a foot. So each carpenter had used his own system of measurement.
    Click on each image for the fullsize:








    More:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(...ses_of_sinking
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-02-...dish-shipwreck

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jon For This Useful Post:

    baja (04-09-2019), high-side (02-23-2019), Philip Davies (02-21-2019), Scotsman Hosie (02-21-2019), volodar (04-09-2019)

  3. #52
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    LA, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,743
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 3,332 Times in 1,145 Posts

    mklotz's Tools
    Eleven inches to a foot! And here I thought that the inferial subdivision was the dumbest measurement subdivision ever devised. Was polydactylism common among the Dutch back then?
    ---
    Regards, Marv


    Home Shop Freeware
    http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mklotz For This Useful Post:

    cmarlow (02-21-2019), volodar (04-09-2019)

  5. #53
    Carpenter & blacksmith Philip Davies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    93
    Thanked 256 Times in 81 Posts

    Philip Davies's Tools
    I do not believe the Vasa was constructed by two teams, one from Sweden and the other from Amsterdam! Under one master shipwright, of course it would not have been lopsided! The presence on board of two different rules simply means that the carpenters on board were from both countries. This would have been the case if a Russian ship or French had also had Dutch carpenters as well. The Vasa capsized because it was top heavy. This had been established before its maiden voyage!

    Although the Amsterdam foot had eleven inches, measuring 28.3133 cm, an extra inch would make a 12 inch foot of 30.88 cm. The closely associated Rhineland foot is 31.38cm. The Swedish foot is 29.69cm, I have learned.
    I have never heard of an 11 inch foot before, though I do not doubt its historical fact.

  6. #54
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    LA, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,743
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 3,332 Times in 1,145 Posts

    mklotz's Tools
    One would think that a group of big time traders like the Hanseatic League would appreciate the wisdom of agreeing on a common measurement system (with non-prime-number divisions). So says someone living in a major trading nation that has yet to put the metric system into common use.

    This is a problem that dates back to the pyramids. There's a temple on the Nile island of Elephantine with an inscription documenting the various lengths of the cubit then in use. Apparently stupidity is as old as civilization.
    ---
    Regards, Marv


    Home Shop Freeware
    http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to mklotz For This Useful Post:

    volodar (04-11-2019)

  8. #55
    hemmjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 108 Times in 59 Posts

    hemmjo's Tools
    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz View Post
    Snip..... Apparently stupidity is as old as civilization.
    Only because we "civilized" people are the only ones who have been "smart" enough to record things so future generations can talk about how foolish we have been.

    English/metric measurement error in the Mars Climate Orbiter-learning_from_history.jpg

    image from the site below, with some interesting thoughts and quotes on the subject..

    https://www.age-of-the-sage.org/phil...m_history.html

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to hemmjo For This Useful Post:

    NortonDommi (03-02-2019), Scotsman Hosie (04-08-2019), volodar (04-09-2019)

  10. #56

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    36
    Thanks
    90
    Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
    Carpenters are often short of a complete handful by a digit or two.
    (Old carpenter here)
    I doubt if the shipwrights got the measurements that far off. Lofting is the process of making full sized drawings to lay out the parts of the hull. The frames would have all been lofted and the bents would have been bent to the same lofting. Even if there were different measuring systems most tradesmen understand how to convert from one system to the other and there would have been somebody in charge of making sure everything fitted, who probably had both sets of rulers in his tool kit.

    I would only consider this idea of the shipwrights building a wonky ship if the actual measurements of the ship showed it to be very wonky. The Vasa left port with the lower gun ports open. If the ship was caught by a sudden wind it might have been blown down enough for the sea to flood the lower decks. The Vasa would not have been the first ship lost to sudden winds. Nor was it the last. Even recently square rigged tall ships have been caught at sea by microburst wind and sank because they were blown down with ports and deck hatches open.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle1366514/

    and the Concordia was a much better balanced ship than the Vasa was.
    Last edited by cmarlow; 02-21-2019 at 08:13 PM. Reason: more to say

  11. #57
    hemmjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 108 Times in 59 Posts

    hemmjo's Tools
    Quote Originally Posted by cmarlow View Post
    snip...and the Concordia was a much better balanced ship than the Vasa was.
    Perhaps those people responsible for naming ships should take note of these two incidents at sea?? There is some difference of opinion in regard to cause for the loss of one, the other was clearly negligence, none the less ships were lost.

    Costa Concordia, 13 January 2012
    English/metric measurement error in the Mars Climate Orbiter-costa-concordia.png


    Concordia, 17 February 2010
    English/metric measurement error in the Mars Climate Orbiter-concordia.png

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to hemmjo For This Useful Post:

    cmarlow (02-22-2019)

  13. #58
    Jon
    Jon is online now Jon has agreed the Seller's Terms of Service
    Administrator Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    14,817
    Thanks
    3,134
    Thanked 9,901 Times in 3,231 Posts
    The Gimli Glider incident, in which a 767 ran out of fuel because, upon refueling, 22,300 pounds of fuel was mistaken for 22,300 kilograms. The crew was able to glide the plane down to a safe landing on a racing track.

    Instead of taking on the 20,088 litres of additional fuel that they required, they instead took on only 4,917 litres. The use of the incorrect conversion factor led to a total fuel load of only 22,300 pounds (10,100 kg) rather than the 22,300 kilograms that was needed.


    More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jon For This Useful Post:

    Drew1966 (04-08-2019), Scotsman Hosie (04-08-2019), Seedtick (04-08-2019), volodar (04-11-2019)

  15. #59
    mklotz mklotz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    LA, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,743
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 3,332 Times in 1,145 Posts

    mklotz's Tools
    Canada and the USA are both guilty of attempting to use both systems (metric and inferial) in parallel. It's a sure recipe for disaster as incidents like the Mars orbiter and the Gimli glider prove.

    Perhaps once enough people have been killed by this insane practice, this stupidity will be abandoned and there will be a mandatory use of only the metric system.
    ---
    Regards, Marv


    Home Shop Freeware
    http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mklotz For This Useful Post:

    Drew1966 (04-08-2019), Scotsman Hosie (04-08-2019), Tonyg (04-08-2019), volodar (04-09-2019)

  17. #60

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    88
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 52 Times in 28 Posts
    It really would be so much safer if the few remaining countries would join the rest of the world in using the metric system.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Drew1966 For This Useful Post:

    mklotz (04-14-2019), volodar (04-11-2019)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •