English/metric measurement error in the Mars Climate Orbiter

[Philip Davies]

Yes, I agree. I am quite slowly going through this article, comparing it with my notes, as it contains much information which is new to me. But the author, Michael Doutre, who styles himself as “Druid Imperior Rhymer”, early on asserts as fact what are dubious theories, anathema to academic archaeologists, who take a scientific approach and do not speculate about prehistory. I accept that it is possible that there may have been a prehistoric civilisation that surveyed the earth and it is well-known that there are a great many measuring systems which are linked by ratios, even when geographically very distant apart. But when I read something like his assertion that an early surveyor, Vyse, forged a cartouche in the Great Pyramid, I recognise the author has an axe to grind, having swallowed the theories of Sitchen (author/conspiracy theorist) . Proper researchers are very diffident when it comes to establishing facts and are careful also to reference their sources. Can you find anything about the author, Lenzen, he cites? I couldn’t!

[Frank S]

while I was doing some research for a book I was contemplating on writing I read several references ab out 11th & 12 century England's building practices. It turned out that the accepted master builders of the time for very large projects were the master so=tone masons. Whose unit of measure was mostly the pole, or divisions thereof. Most references I found to determine the length of a pole were in average of 3 x of the builder's stature in h Being that most people were quite a bit shorter back then, the average height of man was somewhere around 5 ft 4 to 5 ft 6 which would have commonly placed many of the Master stone Masons in the 5 ft 6 inch height range making the length of their poles being 16.5 ft making them fall in line with he length stated in the article (Weights, Measures and Volumes of the Ancient Mediterranean). One of my research sources was a book series the Pillars of the Earth. In one chapter there was a question an apprentice asked the Master how long was a pole? the Master replied a pole is a pole mine is 3 times my height. Well later on the apprentice became the master builder. Now it has been many years since I read the series but I seam to recollect there were some conflicting measurements between the young apprentice's ( now a master) and the old master since one was much taller than the other.
There are many interesting accounts of units of measure through out history

[NortonDommi]

Hello Frank,
It is pretty well known that the architects of the Gothic style were members of the Masonic Order and is is pretty unlikely that they did not use a common measurement system, in fact they would have gone to considerable length to protect their 'Trade Secretes'. I don't know about you but I have occasionally indulged in misrepresentation when annoyed at questioning by someone who is disrupting me while I work.

[Philip Davies]

Thanks, Frank, although the book you are referring to is fiction, a novel by Ken Follett. What was your book to be about?

[Frank S]

Philip, fiction books are usually grounded with factual events the better ones have many deep rooted although often greatly embellished historical facts buried within the story.
My book was based more on a science fictional genre, centered around a forgotten human settlement which was located on a planet which could have been the Earth but wasn't. The principal character started out as a new born Kentauros also known by some as a Centaur or Centaurtide. to a peasant baker woman who was brutally and forcibly molested by a Knight and his war stallion. The Child grew up to be the supreme Queen of the western Continent. Eventually teaching the people long lost art of forging ores into exotic metal alloys, after she discovered some ancient texts dating back hundreds of thousands of years brought to her planet when it was first colonized.Bringing her people out of the very primitive beginnings of a Bronze age Her cunning inherited knowledge of father's warrior, advanced education and leadership skills coupled with the strength stamina and speed inherited from her sire enabled her to excel in every endeavor she undertook.

[Frank S]

NortonDommi; you won't get any argument out of me in that regards I'll often spew out some completely flippant answer to a question asked me when I'm concentrating on something else. I had a business partner who was notorious for asking me something while I was deeply involved in some critical project. usually I could interrupt my own train of thought long enough to give him some off offhandedly stupid answer that would send him away scratching his head. But one day he interrupted me trying to assemble a hydraulic valve body loaded with a dozen small springs and check balls I was just about to begin buttoning it up when he did in an instant springs balls wafer washers and hundreds of other small bits went in every direction imaginable. I laid my tools down and calmly answered his question then said you need to order a new spare parts kit for this valve because we'll have a better chance in winning the publisher's clearing house than we will of ever finding all of the parts.
Caterpillar parts are not cheap, he never interrupted me again.

[Philip Davies]

Yes, Frank, you are not the only one. But what about the wife?

[Frank S]

Yes, Frank, you are not the only one. But what about the wife?

after nearly 30 years her drivel of questions are still non stop but she has learned at least that if I am not directly looking at her to keep her yap shut other wise I'm just going to ignore her as if I didn't hear anything, which thankfully due to failing hearing I usually do not. That is one good thing about hearing loss I don't have to have a radio in my truck or if it happens to be switched on I can drive in blissful peace and not hear music she may be playing as long as she keeps it turned down low I can't stand someone trying to carry on a conversation with me or music of any kind while I am driving or working The nice thing about my computer is the off switch for the speakers when I am watching videos that have music.

[Terence Hogan]

Hi Philip,
As you can see, the link you sent was successful.

Regarding the book referenced by Martin Doutre.

It's a very good book, hardcover of 104 pages. I bought it second-hand as it only had one printing ( that I am aware of), and was self published by Donald L. Lenzen, in June 1989. It's Library of Congress Catalog Card number is #89-91279 (not that that probably matters!). Jon Bosak's " The Old Measure" pub PINAX in August 2010 is an excellent look at the history and lineage of the American Customary Measures.

[Workshopshed]

I can recommend the NASA book "Breaking the mishap chain" which looks at why disasters happen. You should be able to down load it from the NASA site.