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Thread: Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.

  1. #11
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    I doubt the motor on your machine is original, it not only looks different, but that keyway didn't come from any factory of the passed.

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    Personally I think the mineral oil is kinda overkill and don't see how that would not cause probs with the motor. KISS. and in this case keep it less messy

    Sounds like your stash motor is the one I'd go with. Although both are of higher quality than the ones I see a lot. Having a fan and keyed shaft is a bonus IMHO. Then theres plate info..is that the new one that has a lower rated constant duty? It seems there's not as well defined ratings as there is with like regular AC motors. Does "treadmill duty" mean anything goes? This whole world of treadmill motors is confusing and fascinating. Lots of specs keep in mind and I'm sure once you get used to the whole thing it's probably not as complicated as it seems.

    That's cool you have the mounts for both dc's and don't see prob with only two bolts as long as the case they bolt into isn't mystery soft pot metal. It's still a hard for me to see how I'd adapt the mount from the pix but I think I'd start with mounting the old gear on the motor. To me that's the starting point and the mount is going to be dictated by what it's going to take to get the gear in proper alignment. It's a wide gear too. So it has to be as close to perfectly aligned as possible. That means no twist between the two gears and the right amount of lash and of course directly in line. This is why most machinery went to belts, its way less critical as the belt provides all kinda fudge factor. Would it be too hard to change it to belts?

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    Thanks for clearing up information about the motor not being original John. That means there is not much reason to preserve its parts. Another thing I forgot to mention is that the 4 bolts that hold the motor case together only fit one way. The bolt holes are not symmetrical (the reason for the white out orientation marks) maybe that means it was changed somewhere down the line also? I don't have experience with motors of this age and have no refence if this is normal or for motors of this age or not.

    Looking at your suggestion for the mounting plate I am not sure I understand. Turning down the pulley I understand but not the mounting plate. Is your idea to put a mounting plate where the black flywheel is in the photo?
    Last edited by jere; 08-20-2015 at 08:48 AM.

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    C-Bag you are probably right about the oil, its an idea that is just asking for maintenace problems. The more I thought about the oil the more possible problems I see with the ceramic brushes and the oil. PC computers have brushless DC motors powering their fans in the oil setups.
    The fan on the DC motor will need trimmed down to fit if at all. The end of the motor case will need some big holes drilled in it to get some air circulation (and a thin air filter too).

    I put the photos of the brackets in more as a reference. I don't think I will reuse them in their original form.They are steel and I could weld them to another bracket part that is also homemade.

    It's a good thought to change the gears to belts that would make things much easier to work with. It would be a lot more work to make gears that fit it. The space where the gears occupy is pretty tight there wouldn't be a way to adjust belt tension. I find it ironic the gears were innovative on these machines and aselling point in their day..."the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry” I suppose.

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    I wouldn't use the motor bracket probably in it's original form either. It would just be for the nice curved mating surface and something to work off of.

    You would know better about the gears and changing to belt, but tension would not be my concern. You have to make the motor adjustable anyway no matter what. I'm used to tensioning with an arm and roller with a spring if that's not enough.

    When I redid my HFT 14" bandsaw I needed to change it to a metal cutting bandsaw. So I had to take the 3,000fpm to below 200fpm. Ultimately I decided on 110fm. The easiest way for me was to take an old dead tablesaw motor and mount(one of my bad buys off cl) that tensioned by hanging. Then made an arm with the jackshaft on it. So the jackshaft unit hangs from the driven pulley/belt on the saw then the motor hangs off the jackshaft belt/pulley. Never had any slippage and if I want to change a belt I just pick up on the jackshaft arm and take off the saw belt and let down the motor and bingo the belt is off.

    I've used so many parts off that tablesaw it's made itself worth what got I ripped off for. Recycling my defeats.

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    This is what I was talking about.

    There is hundreds of ways to do it and make it right but this is how I would do it. A 1/4" plate would work and use spacers cut at any length you need to line up the gear inside. Pull the armature and turn the shaft down to needed size for the gear and key it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrdan john View Post
    This is what I was talking about.

    There is hundreds of ways to do it and make it right but this is how I would do it. A 1/4" plate would work and use spacers cut at any length you need to line up the gear inside. Pull the armature and turn the shaft down to needed size for the gear and key it.
    I like this idea a lot thanks for clarifying!

    Building on the idea, I could add a second plate that is slotted for an extra direction of adjustability. Maybe make some brackets with all thread like a cars alternator/ power steering... belt tension system. that way the gears could adjusted in addition to the axial plane.
    Last edited by jere; 08-20-2015 at 05:07 PM. Reason: finally proof read...ooops

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    Great feed back from all! I've read over this several times and looked at all the pictures and tend to agree with Jonathan's idea of a plate and incorporating C-Bags "adjustability/lash" fixes for it, seems right to me. The one thing that can not seen with any clarity is what the original front/back view of the motor housings gives for detail of depth and mounting a plate to it. It seems to me that an L or U bracket that attaches to the treadmill mounts could be anchored to that front housing somehow but lack clarity of what is available to hook to? I might not weld it either if parts should ever surface for the old motor again. I also might be a bit concerned with a lateral flex unless it was rotated to a anchor position to support itself against the drive gears.

    The biggest concern I see is heating/cooling with this new motor based on the Duty Cycle, C-Bag talked about. So having a system to give constant, clean air flow over it is quite important. My limited knowledge of band-saws tells me that the range of SFM is not too large or necessary, unless it will be used for wood and metal? Does the saw have some gearbox to have multiple SFM? To me it could be made to run the narrow band for metal and cooling would be better and more managable IMHO. The fan on the front of it is really made for clean air so chips and whatnot need to stay out and not restrict the airflow. Curious what kind of CFM it might have at speed. Axials can push quite a bit depending on pitch but was thinking that some kind of heat exchanger could be built (tubing maybe) to replace the field coils in the old housing and ported to the rear to draw the heat out of the housing. Hiding this all in the old motor housing has it's challenges but will be Cool.

    That's my 22 cents worth for now...hope it helps¿

    C-Bag...love your new Aeolipile Avatar!!
    ‘‘Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’’
    Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJs View Post
    Great feed back from all! I've read over this several times and looked at all the pictures and tend to agree with Jonathan's idea of a plate and incorporating C-Bags "adjustability/lash" fixes for it, seems right to me. The one thing that can not seen with any clarity is what the original front/back view of the motor housings gives for detail of depth and mounting a plate to it. It seems to me that an L or U bracket that attaches to the treadmill mounts could be anchored to that front housing somehow but lack clarity of what is available to hook to? I might not weld it either if parts should ever surface for the old motor again. I also might be a bit concerned with a lateral flex unless it was rotated to a anchor position to support itself against the drive gears.

    The biggest concern I see is heating/cooling with this new motor based on the Duty Cycle, C-Bag talked about. So having a system to give constant, clean air flow over it is quite important. My limited knowledge of band-saws tells me that the range of SFM is not too large or necessary, unless it will be used for wood and metal? Does the saw have some gearbox to have multiple SFM? To me it could be made to run the narrow band for metal and cooling would be better and more managable IMHO. The fan on the front of it is really made for clean air so chips and whatnot need to stay out and not restrict the airflow. Curious what kind of CFM it might have at speed. Axials can push quite a bit depending on pitch but was thinking that some kind of heat exchanger could be built (tubing maybe) to replace the field coils in the old housing and ported to the rear to draw the heat out of the housing. Hiding this all in the old motor housing has it's challenges but will be Cool.

    That's my 22 cents worth for now...hope it helps¿

    C-Bag...love your new Aeolipile Avatar!!
    PJ good questions and thanks for verification of the design ideas so far.

    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150820_230201.jpg
    Here are some shots of the ( I think these sections really are original) original motors housing ends. No good mounting points that I trust at least. I am thinking about drilling 4 holes in the section that bolts to the machine body. the holes would be concealed, and would leave room for mounting plates and or some adjustable hardware. then I could use "L" brackets to mount to the sides of the treadmill motor.

    That photo has some ⅛ galvanized mild steel sheet that I am thinking about making the mounting plates from. it won't be fun cleaning the zinc/paint coating but it should work and is the thickest steel I have around. I have some exhaust tubing that I could make a sleeve for the treadmill motor to weld some triangle braces to supplement the "L" brackets.
    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150820_230224.jpg
    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150820_230032.jpg
    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150820_230000.jpg
    here are the 2 gears and the section they spin in. the gear housing has an oil bath. the opposing side of the motor is where the larger gear, lower bandsaw wheel and bearing case mount. ( sorry not much room to get the best photos)

    Looking to add a treadmill motor to a JD Wallace vintage bandsaw.-20150820_233525.jpg
    I found a date stamp on the larger gear "Aug,13,18" with a pat date in 1917. it's the only date I have found yet on the machine.

    for the cooling I am trying to think of a way to fit the treadmill motors fan. at the same time give it adequate air flow. (I like the idea of using a computer fan but can't find a good way of integrating it into the housing. ) one thought is to make a dummy bowl that looks like the end of the motors housing. then put a fan sized hole right in the center of it. I could make a similar cover for the center section of the old motor that houses the coils. maybe make a hole in the underside of that cover for hot air to exhaust?

    I think I will be using pantyhose for the air filter, they are an improvised air filter ( especially for wood chips/dust in the shop vac) that have used before.

    As for the bandsaws use I plan on using it primarily for wood cutting. I have a 4x6 horizontal saw I use for metal but its a nice option to have a more capable backup. originally the saws were sold with different ratio gears for cutting different media (some were even geared for cutting bone in meat packing). With the variable speed treadmill motor the ratio won't matter so much hopefully. I don't know what the power curve will look like with the DC motor running at far less than its top speed of 4500rpm.

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