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Thread: Vintage work crew photos

  1. #211
    Jon
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    I don't get why the people are being used essentially as draft animals (but, yes, still: paid workers). I don't think this exists today even in countries that still have slavery. Why not a horse or mule or some such? Access issue? Deep river with narrow banks? Can a person do a better job of pulling a boat upstream than an animal? We're seeing them pull on land, but I believe they cross back and forth between the water and the land.

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    The photos are completely different people.
    In the 1946 photograph, people are shod in sandals and half-naked.
    The Chinese are not tall. In the 1946 photograph, tall people with long arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I don't get why the people are being used essentially as draft animals (but, yes, still: paid workers). I don't think this exists today even in countries that still have slavery. Why not a horse or mule or some such? Access issue? Deep river with narrow banks? Can a person do a better job of pulling a boat upstream than an animal? We're seeing them pull on land, but I believe they cross back and forth between the water and the land.
    Too many unskilled folks in an essentially (then) agrarian economy. People in dire need of money would work for far less than the maintenance cost of draft animals. The few jobs better than animal-like labor required skills and the peasants had no time to acquire skills much less the resources to pay for the acquisition thereof.
    ---
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeJasonT View Post
    I'm curios as to the reasons behind only UK and USA apologising for the slave trade. The Dutch were quite a huge trading nation who transported many salves and yet very little was mentioned of their involvement.
    Well, between Holland vs UK and USA, we've a greater share of apologetic liberals, revisionists of history, and receptive entitle-istas thinking 8-9 generations later is a signal, high time dipping into deep pockets THEY do little to fill.

    P.S. I recall articles declaring their very own continent more at fault as suppliers, overpowering and deprecating any tribe possible.

    Any external nation as customer wouldn't have cause putting to sea otherwise.
    Last edited by Toolmaker51; 11-04-2018 at 08:27 PM.
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    And regarding "boat-tracking"; can't imagine what distinction near slave labor befits ceremonial attention, garbed or not. Talk about a sales pitch! Ceremonies?
    Better than Tom Sawyer collecting an apple from his dupe for honor of whitewashing Tom's fence.
    Unless boat owner, master, or at least bos'n is in such a harness, that's some prime example for union leadership!
    No more closed shops for this hombre either.
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    Supporting Member mklotz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolmaker51 View Post
    Well, between Holland vs UK and USA, we've a greater share of apologetic liberals, revisionists of history, and receptive entitle-istas thinking 8-9 generations later is a signal, high time dipping into deep pockets THEY do little to fill.

    P.S. I recall articles declaring their very own continent more at fault as suppliers, overpowering and deprecating any tribe possible.

    Any external nation as customer wouldn't have cause putting to sea otherwise.
    Most of western Europe was involved in the slave trade.

    The French...

    France | Europe | The Places Involved | Slavery Routes | Bristol and Transatlantic Slavery | PortCities Bristol

    populated Haiti with slaves. Portugal...

    Portugal | Europe | The Places Involved | Slavery Routes | Bristol and Transatlantic Slavery | PortCities Bristol

    originated the trade. Spain...

    Spain | Europe | The Places Involved | Slavery Routes | Bristol and Transatlantic Slavery | PortCities Bristol

    had slaves all over the Caribbean and Mexico. Their Catholic priests enslaved considerable numbers of native Americans during their relentless proselytizing.
    ---
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  10. #217
    Jon
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    I'm still favoring some sort of niche logistical argument to explain why men are doing the drafting upriver. Can't draft animals ultimately outperform humans, calorie for calorie? Because what is the minimum for which a human or animal can work, long-term? To replace the calories burned while working, right? Biologically, we can't continue to perform work for less than that. And a draft horse does pulling work equivalent to about 10 men? And about 5 men equal the work of a lesser draft animal like a mule?

    I wonder if it's a biped vs. quadruped issue. Or a specialty work crew that needs to pull boats upriver, both on land, and in the water, both walking AND swimming upriver. What happens when horses are pulling a load through a river, and the river depth exceeds the horses' height? Will the horses swim the load forward? Can a team of 20 men swim one of those boats upriver?

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    Supporting Member MeJasonT's Avatar
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    Brilliant Jon, back on topic. I wonder how long it will be before people in the west are used as cheap labour in stead of expensive machine and robots. In order for Trumps master plan to work more labour will definitely be required. When the west loves to put people before profit that could be us very soon.
    Citizen of the "New democratic" Republic of Britain, apart from Scotland who are still not very happy.

  12. #219
    Jon
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    Ironically, the internet's two favorite topics of heated debate (slavery and Nazis) are actually perfectly relevant to a thread about vintage work crews. Even a strong familiarity with Godwin's Law will not help us here.

    I'll look through my work crews photo file so we can move our conversation forward. The Chinese boat haulers may simply have to remain a mystery.

  13. #220
    Supporting Member Toolmaker51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I'm still favoring some sort of niche logistical argument to explain why men are doing the drafting upriver. Can't draft animals ultimately outperform humans, calorie for calorie? Because what is the minimum for which a human or animal can work, long-term? To replace the calories burned while working, right? Biologically, we can't continue to perform work for less than that. And a draft horse does pulling work equivalent to about 10 men? And about 5 men equal the work of a lesser draft animal like a mule?

    I wonder if it's a biped vs. quadruped issue. Or a specialty work crew that needs to pull boats upriver, both on land, and in the water, both walking AND swimming upriver. What happens when horses are pulling a load through a river, and the river depth exceeds the horses' height? Will the horses swim the load forward? Can a team of 20 men swim one of those boats upriver?
    I'm willing to guess any number of convenient situations magically convened that a boat owner moved goods upstream. Unlike certain modern locales; there always are people desperate for employment, perhaps only meager food.
    I say animals were utilized only when human effort was insufficient. Weight [displacement] vs size of hooves might not even put horses all that far beyond a hundred pound guy with 2 hands and feet. They'd also carry burden of hauling grain/ alfalfa every inch upstream. And I don't picture either mules or draft animals performing on rice.

    *Come to think of it are there any horses in the picture, say ridden by a overseer?
    Last edited by Toolmaker51; 11-05-2018 at 03:34 PM. Reason: * Come to think of it.......
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